Romans 13 / Caesar

[quasimodo]

I'm not 100% certain, but I think Caesar is dead.
Render unto a dead man?

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by quasimodo

I'm not 100% certain, but I think Caesar is dead.
Render unto a dead man?

Unfortunately you have alot of pastors who are or were Masons who allergorize and spiritualize this passage, and reap much brainwashed NLP victims

[quasimodo]

Very true. FIMA has been going around to some of the larger 501(c)(3) churches enlisting the pastors to, at a given time tell their parishioners to give up themselves to the authorities at the onset of martial law citing Romans 13 government is of God.
I suppose they will have to answer to a higher power for that one.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Livefire

I wouldnt mind that set up....if we did that there would be very little poverty in the land today!

I agree..

I also believe that most of the poverty in our world today is caused by usury and fractional reserve banking.

[psholtz]

Some thoughts on "Render unto Ceasar":

1) In the first place, the Bible is first and foremost a Spiritual do***ent, meant for man's Spiritual growth and welfare. In this sense, we must understand how man stands in his relation to God: in the same way that a growing plant is able to "bring life" to other dead and inert soil, so does the "Kingdom of God" (which throughout Scripture is liken unto a "seed") able to "quicken" the otherwise "dead" body of man ("let the dead bury their dead").

Read all the "plant" and "soil" analogies made to the Kingdom of God through Scripture, esp in Matthew 13.

So we understand by this that man stands at the threshhold, the gateway inbetween heaven and earth, and that although there be a firmament established between these two kingdoms, man has been gifted w/ "the Kingdom of Heaven" -- which is really a "seed" (Matthew 13) planted inside him (Luke 17:21).

In this sense, man is a dual, hybrid creation: part animal and part angel.

Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's, and render unto God that which is God's is then simply an admonishment to (a) take care of the physical body you've been given, and render to your material needs and wants those things which are necessary for physical life; and (b) take care of Spiritual Soul which has been gifted to you, and render to it the spiritual needs and wants it has by acting according to the better dictates of your conscience.

2) Supposing we take the verse at face value, the way those who would have us "pay our taxes" mean to: the verse does *not* command the payment of taxes. It simply says what it says: render to Ceasar that which is Ceasar's. Supposing that "Ceasar" in this case is meant to be the Federal Reserve/IRS, the only "seeds" these criminals have sown, and the only "fruit" which may therefore be rendered unto them is something approacing the penalty of death for their crimes.

3) It's interesting that the Founding Fathers took this verse as an admonishment to separate Church and State.

I like the posts on this thread that indicate that God deals in substance, not in fictions.

Also, as a point of discussion for this thread, and especially pertinent for those who wish to compare this verse to our friends over at the IRS: was Ceasar's jurisdiction relative to Judea foreign? :-)

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

of course- taxation then as now, is administrative. Voluntary participation required.

As well the "Jewish Temple" jurisdiction- note the encounter in Tiberias with the local tax-collectors, how Peter volunteered and was "anticipated" by Jesus.

This functionally must be, especially for personal taxes, as long as there is any possibility of being foreign vs domestic.

[David Merrill]

I was debating something about Jerome Daly a while back, searching...

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/129137-post22.html

And yesterday I got an article sent email - very good I suppose but I only gisted it through the introduction. Which was to say when home churches are discovered in most other countries of the world, they are irradicated by force. - Not in America. So what is it with the home churches in America?

Well, get a look at that post I linked from the other thread. Jerome Daly's home church was attacked, by Shoonra at least and in context, on the false premise that the tax exempt church in America is a church. Not so - even according to the IRC.

The IRS admits to a big distinction between churches, which are disqualified for tax exemption and religious organizations which get tax exemptions.

An occult religion of mammon. It needs to be examined in proper light in my opinion before trying to interprete the Bible about it - at least for applied exegesis.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Livefire]

They are disqualified because a church falls outside the scope of the IRS jurisdiction, unless the church volunteers for 501c(3) status. Churches have an EXCEPTION! That is they are not subject to rule.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by Livefire

They are disqualified because a church falls outside the scope of the IRS jurisdiction, unless the church volunteers for 501c(3) status. Churches have an EXCEPTION! That is they are not subject to rule.

Yes indeedy!

Churches by that word are disqualified organizations; made clear in §170. And it would seem that by removing the verbiage from §501 most people commenting on 501(c)(3) churches miss this important point.

The crazy thing is the IRS has it correct and agrees with us both!



Regards,

David Merrill.

[weishaupt1776]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RHQOdlBnMBQ
http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...searc h_type=