Human Sacrifice > Animal Sacrifice > Human Sacrifice?

[weishaupt1776]

Yes The precious shed Blood of Yohoshua Messiah has not only washed my brain, but my entire corrupted being.

No doubt.

Wash that brain on out

[sadie]

I'm afraid Stu is right about the Catholics.

I was raised Catholic and we never had a bible. We had books from school and church, prayer books, missals, bible story books. The gospels read in church were in the missals and supposedly were from "the bible".

We were brainwashed and pummeled with guilt and not supposed to question anything. We were threatened with damnation for even walking by the Protestant church and could never associate with anyone not Catholic.

I saw first hand the Catholic church in action. Building huge fancy churches in poor neighborhoods. Having altars and statues of saints to pray to. Taking up 2 and 3 collections at each service for their coffers. Making us go out and sell things in the neighborhood all the time to raise money for some hungry kids somewhere. (guilit, guilt)

All the while we lived in a public housing project for poor people and could barely get by. A three family house burned and a family with 8 kids
(who all went to the church school and paid tuition to it) lost their father. Did the nuns and priests come rushing to their aid with all that money collected for "the poor" from the poor?

No they didn't. They did nothing. Where is the Christian love there?

I left the Catholic church and I spent the 60s 70s and 80s studying and searching with an open mind to theology, philosophy, comparative religion
eastern mysticism, ancient scripts (none in the original languages I don't know languages). I investigated taoism, zen budhism, brother julius, children of the light, moonies, scientology, saw the mahariji gi, jehovah witnesses many more. I seriously looked at the "god is dead" movement, evolution, big bang, ufos.

Through all of this I lived in a bad relationship riddled with the guilt of the world originally brainwashed in me by the Catholic church. On the verge of a nervous breakdown, I went off alone and poured my heart out and surrendered to God. I know God exists. I know God is love. I know the path to peace and happiness is love.

The Bible has many things in it to teach us the way of love. But so do many other books e.g The Way - Lao Tse God is everywhere and everything and more. He is not in a book. There are many ministers/teachers who walk and live the way of love and teach me to see and understand God's lessons in the bible, for this I am grateful. But I cannot say I believe every word of the bible literally. There are too many versions books added, taken out, varied interpretations. What about all the writings that preceed the writings of the bible? Do they not exist?

Men use the scriptures they want to compile what they want and to control others and to start wars and oppress each other. Many people who claim to be such loving christians wave the bible in front of others as they hate them and shout them down claiming they are the only ones who know God.

As irrational as the anti-abortionists who claim abortion is murder and it is wrong so they murder the people at the abortion clinics - I guess because that murder is right?

People all over the world know God by direct communion of the spirit. It is the "churches" and the "books" that cause all the confusion. What does it matter your path to God as long as you get there? If everyone would stop fighting over the Bible, the Koran and all the others and start practising the universal lesson of love for God and love of others we would have heaven on earth right here right now.

I think BS was sent here by God so that we can see where we are on the path.

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by sadie

I'm afraid Stu is right about the Catholics.

I was raised Catholic and we never had a bible. We had books from school and church, prayer books, missals, bible story books. The gospels read in church were in the missals and supposedly were from "the bible".

We were brainwashed and pummeled with guilt and not supposed to question anything. We were threatened with damnation for even walking by the Protestant church and could never associate with anyone not Catholic.

I saw first hand the Catholic church in action. Building huge fancy churches in poor neighborhoods. Having altars and statues of saints to pray to. Taking up 2 and 3 collections at each service for their coffers. Making us go out and sell things in the neighborhood all the time to raise money for some hungry kids somewhere. (guilit, guilt)

All the while we lived in a public housing project for poor people and could barely get by. A three family house burned and a family with 8 kids
(who all went to the church school and paid tuition to it) lost their father. Did the nuns and priests come rushing to their aid with all that money collected for "the poor" from the poor?

No they didn't. They did nothing. Where is the Christian love there?

I left the Catholic church and I spent the 60s 70s and 80s studying and searching with an open mind to theology, philosophy, comparative religion
eastern mysticism, ancient scripts (none in the original languages I don't know languages). I investigated taoism, zen budhism, brother julius, children of the light, moonies, scientology, saw the mahariji gi, jehovah witnesses many more. I seriously looked at the "god is dead" movement, evolution, big bang, ufos.

Through all of this I lived in a bad relationship riddled with the guilt of the world originally brainwashed in me by the Catholic church. On the verge of a nervous breakdown, I went off alone and poured my heart out and surrendered to God. I know God exists. I know God is love. I know the path to peace and happiness is love.

The Bible has many things in it to teach us the way of love. But so do many other books e.g The Way - Lao Tse God is everywhere and everything and more. He is not in a book. There are many ministers/teachers who walk and live the way of love and teach me to see and understand God's lessons in the bible, for this I am grateful. But I cannot say I believe every word of the bible literally. There are too many versions books added, taken out, varied interpretations. What about all the writings that preceed the writings of the bible? Do they not exist?

Men use the scriptures they want to compile what they want and to control others and to start wars and oppress each other. Many people who claim to be such loving christians wave the bible in front of others as they hate them and shout them down claiming they are the only ones who know God.

As irrational as the anti-abortionists who claim abortion is murder and it is wrong so they murder the people at the abortion clinics - I guess because that murder is right?

People all over the world know God by direct communion of the spirit. It is the "churches" and the "books" that cause all the confusion. What does it matter your path to God as long as you get there? If everyone would stop fighting over the Bible, the Koran and all the others and start practising the universal lesson of love for God and love of others we would have heaven on earth right here right now.

I think BS was sent here by God so that we can see where we are on the path.

Sadie, there is but one truth and one YHWH, not many. There is but one way to the Father and that is through Yeshua the Christ. If people kill unborn children that is murder, the same as killing the abortionist is murder. People are confused because they listen to the voice of Satan instead of the voice of YHWH. How does YHWH speak to us today? He speaks to us through his word. His word is not found in any other book than the one he wrote through the prophets, the Holy Scriptures (Bible).

YHWH is not in the trees, the sky, the ocean, etc. When we look at those things we see His handywork, but He is not in them. YHWH is love as you rightly state, but He is also just. James 2:13a "For judgment is without mercy." YHWH hates sin because He is holy and there is a consequence for it and is death (Romans 6:23), but the free gift of YHWH is eternal life in Yeshua the Christ. The just part is death and is what sinful man deserves. The love part is that when we repent and place our tust in Him, He has mercy on us and forgives us of our sin. It is not He that sends a sinner to an eternity separated from Him, it is the one who sins that does that.

Some of what you have stated I agree with, but a lot of it I do not. You don't look to phylosophy for spiritual answers. We are spiritual being made in the likeness of YHWH. If you want answers to life's questions you go to the one that has all the answers and that is the one that created all, YHWH. Now some may disagree with me, but that is okay. I do not expect all to agree.

[Livefire]

Originally Posted by RickA

Quote:Iamfreeru2
I believed when I was shown in the Bible that I was a sinner destined for an eternity separated from YHWH

Maybe he supposes that if he doesn't read it then, it doesn't apply to him?

Guess Stu doesnt wanna contract with the Almighty!!! LOL That only applies to those with sovereign standing. When it comes to God....the creation is SUBJECT to the CREATOR, therefore ALL things are subservient and SUBJECT to His Law!!!!


For sadie: I would HIGHLY recommend Alexander Hislop's book Two Babylons. It's available in electronic format online for free! Heavy duty reading but will show the true origins of the Catholic "church" You'll find out its little more than Nimrod/Semiramis worship repackaged. Nothing to do with Yeshua Ha Meschiach!!
http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/

[BoyntonStu]

[quote=Livefire]Guess Stu doesnt wanna contract with the Almighty!!! LOL That only applies to those with sovereign standing. When it comes to God....the creation is SUBJECT to the CREATOR, therefore ALL things are subservient and SUBJECT to His Law!!!!


Law? What specific Law or Laws are you referring to?

[sadie]

iamfree2

I appreciate your response.

Sadie, there is but one truth and one YHWH, not many.

However, I didn't say there are many Gods I said there are many paths to God.

YHWH is not in the trees, the sky, the ocean, etc. When we look at those things we see His handywork, but He is not in them

I didn't say God is in the trees etc.(limited in His presence). I said He is everything and everywhere. If His spirit doesn't flow into the tree to give it life, then can the tree exist? I believe the spirit of God is in all things but all things are not the sum total of God.

If God's creations are not an extension of Him, then they are separate from Him
And if nothing exists without God
Then a thing separate from God does not exist

So if we, His creations, are separate from Him then we do not exist.
But we do exist therefore, we must be one with God.

Definitions of philosophy on the Web:
doctrine: a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school

the study of truths about reality. The search for wisdom.
www.imh.org/imh/china/ed/glos.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ine:philosophy

The definition of philosophy is above and it is what you have - a doctrine: belief accepted as authoritative by some group. Christianity, therefore, is a school of philosophy based on the doctrine/belief system espoused in the Bible.

All spiritualism is philosophy
Not all philosophy is spiritualism

I can see by your posts you are fervent in your belief. Praise God that you have found your path. I don't totally agree but I don't totally disagree either. I am still seeking and learning.

If God created everything, then God created evil.
If God only created some things then who created the rest - who created evil?

Can God create something more powerful than Himself ?

Gen 1:27 God created man in his own image

Therefore, man has the ability to create

We know this is true as we have created this monstrous government for ourselves which is now more powerful than we the people - the creators

Therefore God can create something more powerful than Himself.

Matt 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged." If we are all one with God then when we judge someone else we judge ourselves.

“Whatever a man sows, that will he also reap.” (Galatians 6:7) Christianity

Hinduism - According to the Vedas, if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil.

Cliche - What goes around comes around.

Many paths to God.


livefire
thanks for the link, I will pass it on to a few people.
It will be a real eye opener for them.

[BoyntonStu]

Sadie,

I judge what a person says and what a person does, not in what they claim to believe.

Whatever got you to act and to write as you do I know that it is OK for you and for others that you interact with.

You are not going to Hell as some narrow minded people non-think.

The so called 'Christians' assume that the hundred on millions of Catholics, the billion Buddists, the 1.2 billion Moslems, etc., etc, will all go to Hell because they do not believe in the same way as they do.

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by sadie

iamfree2

I appreciate your response.


However, I didn't say there are many Gods I said there are many paths to God.



I didn't say God is in the trees etc.(limited in His presence). I said He is everything and everywhere. If His spirit doesn't flow into the tree to give it life, then can the tree exist? I believe the spirit of God is in all things but all things are not the sum total of God.

If God's creations are not an extension of Him, then they are separate from Him
And if nothing exists without God
Then a thing separate from God does not exist

So if we, His creations, are separate from Him then we do not exist.
But we do exist therefore, we must be one with God.



The definition of philosophy is above and it is what you have - a doctrine: belief accepted as authoritative by some group. Christianity, therefore, is a school of philosophy based on the doctrine/belief system espoused in the Bible.

All spiritualism is philosophy
Not all philosophy is spiritualism

I can see by your posts you are fervent in your belief. Praise God that you have found your path. I don't totally agree but I don't totally disagree either. I am still seeking and learning.

If God created everything, then God created evil.
If God only created some things then who created the rest - who created evil?

Can God create something more powerful than Himself ?

Gen 1:27 God created man in his own image

Therefore, man has the ability to create

We know this is true as we have created this monstrous government for ourselves which is now more powerful than we the people - the creators

Therefore God can create something more powerful than Himself.

Matt 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged." If we are all one with God then when we judge someone else we judge ourselves.

“Whatever a man sows, that will he also reap.” (Galatians 6:7) Christianity

Hinduism - According to the Vedas, if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil.

Cliche - What goes around comes around.

Many paths to God.


livefire
thanks for the link, I will pass it on to a few people.
It will be a real eye opener for them.

I apologize for making it sound as if I accused you of saying there is more than one God. The Bible is clear on the path to the Father, however. John 14:6 "Yeshua said to him." "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through me." The Scriptures tell us there is one way and only one way to the Father and that is through His Son Yeshua the Christ.

YHWHs spirit indwells human beings not trees, cows, dogs, or anything else and I have not found anywhere in His word where this is supported. He made man in His image, Genesis 1:26: "Then YHWH said. 'Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness (meaning He made us spiritual beings and gave us a soul); and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'" We can create on a limited basis. The talents that we have all come from Him. Do we have the abitity to create life? That is reserved for Him only.

As far as being separated from YHWH is concerned; a sinful man cannot be in the presence of YHWH because YHWH is holy. Luke 16:19-31 is a prime example of this where the poor man Lazarus died was carried to Abraham's bosom and comforted, and the rich man died and was buried and was in torment in Hades (hell). Luke 16:26 "And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, in order that those who wish come over from here to you may not be able, and that none may cross from there to us." If that is not separation I do not know what is. Did the Rich man cease to exist? Not according to this passage.

The good news is that none of us need spend an eternity separated from YHWH. Placing our trust and our faith in Yeshua the Christ and Him only is how we get to heaven. I Corinthians 15:3b-4 "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and He was buried, and that He rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures." Romans 10:9,10 "If you confess with your mouth Yeshua the Christ and believe in your heart that YHWH raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." John 10:10b "I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly."

Many paths to YHWH? His own word says there be but one way, as I have shown above. Anything else is a lie and not the truth according to His word. Does that make me a judge? I do not believe so, as I am only sharing His words not my own. I am acting as His messenger. He has called me to fulfill the great commission and that is to go into all the world and share the good news of the gospel of Yeshua the Christ. I only share the truth of YHWH's word. I bid you peace.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

The so called 'Christians' assume that the hundred on millions of Catholics, the billion Buddists, the 1.2 billion Moslems, etc., etc, will all go to Hell because they do not believe in the same way as they do.

It is the fact that man has sin passed on to him at birth which renders him guilty and worthy of an eternal sentence to the Lake Of Fire.
It is NOT MERELY because one does not believe a certain way.
[b]The Bible declares:

• Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

All of us were born guilty out of the womb. Read the above, "idolaters, and liars"

We have all put something ahead of or above God which makes us guilty of being idolaters.

We have all lied which makes us liars and worthy of punishment

Stu, you have admitted to being a liar, a thief, and an adulterer at heart.
So it is the fact that you have a sin nature on you which will render you a sentence to the Lake of Fire, not just because you did or did not believe a certain way.

Man cannot present his own righteousness ( i.e. self righteousness; being a good person, working soup lines, etc. . .) to God in order to have eternal life.
You say you've never killed anyone, so therefore you can't be that bad.

• Mat 5:21** "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
  Mat 5:22** "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty {enough to go} into the fiery hell.

So God equates calling someone a fool with being just as bad as murder and deserving the same punishment.
So if you have ever called someone a fool and such, then you deserve the punishment of fiery Hell as far as God is concerned.

So, back to YOUR original point.
It is the fact that you are a liar, an idolater, and have slandered your brother, which makes you worthy of eternal punishment and NOT JUST THE SOLE FACT THAT YOU HAVEN'T BELIEVED.

Mankind has his own self-righteous view of what being a good person is. He thinks, "well calling someone a fool isn't as bad as murder"

Well, God has his own view of righteousness, and that is sinless perfection, which no one could ever have obtained. If you've sinned once, you may as well have broke all of God's Laws.

• Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

But, at the same time, only the doers of the law will be justified:

• Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

We must be in trouble now. If we break one law, we're guilty of breaking all of the law, but we can only be justified if we do the law.

Wait a minute:

• Rom 5:19** For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Halleluja. Yohoshua Messiah did the law for you on your behalf because you couldn't keep the whole law.
His perfect obedience to God's Law can now be credited to your account as perfect righteousness so God doesn't see your self-righteous sinful self, which would merit an eternal sentence in the Lake of Fire.

Eternal life is a gift which is to be received AND NOT a reward which is earned or worked for through your self righteousness (your own personal view of what being "good" is)

• Rom 4:4** Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

So if you think that you are "a good person just doing the best you can", then you are attempting to establish your own righteousness and saying that God owes you eternal life because you are working for it as if eternal life is your wages or a reward.

You do, however, have the ability to receive the perfect righteousness of Yeshua credited to your account by trusting in, clinging to, and relying upon BOTH

• Yohoshua Messiah's death on the cross in which he suffered the full penalty for your sinful self and;
• His resurrection from death as One victorious over sin, death, and Hell

Rom 4:3** For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Rom 4:6** just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
Rom 4:7** "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
Rom 4:8** "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."
Rom 4:9** Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.[/list]
It is God's righteousness which merit's eternal life, not your self-righteousness. You can't work for a gift. God's righteousness is a gift:

• Rom 5:1 even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

A gift can only be received, not worked for by your own self righteous efforts.

So people will suffer in the Lake of Fire because they chose not to be cloaked in Christ's righteousness, which is the only righteousness allowed in the prescence of God for eternity.
People will suffer eternal punishment because they sought to establish their own self righteous sinfulness above God instead of accepting a Gift.

[sadie]

Thank you Stu for your post. I spent many years being told not to question but I questioned and of course carried the guilt. I don't believe God would have given us the minds we have if not to use them, what would be the point.

iamfree2

No need to apologize. I was just clarifying. I do understand your belief and your call to minister. I am not trying to dissuade you. As Jerseee always says don't argue, ask questions.

Discussion is a sharing and learning experience. Thank you for sharing