Questions for Boynton Stu

Is submitting to being beaten a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to being killed a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to wearing a crown of thorns a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to being crucified a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to any type of suffering a sacrifice (when it can be avoided)? Yes or No.

Is submitting to sentence of death when no wrong has been done a sacrifice? Yes or No.


By submitting, I mean willingly allowing it to happen.

Thanks

HenryFranklin

[weishaupt1776]

Sorry HF, Only BoyntonStu gets to ask questions

He's most likely going to pull the "I asked the question first" thing

Weis,

I have chosen to give him the opportunity to answer.

I'd like to see if he does, and avoid the pre-judging for this go-around.

Thanks

Henry Franklin

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by HenryBowman

Is submitting to being beaten a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to being killed a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to wearing a crown of thorns a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to being crucified a sacrifice? Yes or No.

Is submitting to any type of suffering a sacrifice (when it can be avoided)? Yes or No.

Is submitting to sentence of death when no wrong has been done a sacrifice? Yes or No.


By submitting, I mean willingly allowing it to happen.

Thanks

HenryFranklin

What an honor! A thread for me. Wow!

Let me answer your question.

The first thing that comes to mind is the constant use of the word, 'submitting', used 5 times.

In fact, you defined it to me, "willingly allowing it to happen".


Let's examine this definition:

1> When I was a young child my father taught me how to box. He "willingly" let me hit him as hard as I could in his stomach. Since I was only 4 or 5 at the time, I could not hurt him more than a feather could hurt a horse. Of course he knew that, before he volunteered to be hit, so it was not a sacrifice. If Jesus was our Father our God, could anything 'hurt' him more than I could hurt my father by punching him in the stomach?

2> A God is by definition; infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, etc. By measuring a God in mortal terms you must divide human quantities by infinity. Thus anything divided by infinity is almost exactly zero.

3> Omniscient means to know everything. If Jesus knew the future and that the future was bright and 'resurrected', a moment in infinity is negligible.

4> Now back to the word 'submitting'. If a band of Roman soldiers carried a person to a cross, would the human be 'submitting' or was s/he being forced?
The 100,000 Jews that were crucified did not willingly submit; they were forced. They died.

5> Being 'killed' and then being 'unkilled' (resurrected) is no sacrifice.
It is exactly like my example of donating and getting a refund, zero sacrifice.

6> "Wearing a crown of thorns", Yikes!!!! So outrageously unstylish. Yes! That is a sacrifice!

[Livefire]

Heb 5:7 For Jesus, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong cryings and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared,
Heb 5:8 though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
Heb 5:9 And being perfected, He became the Author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him,


For there to be a testimony, there must first be a test. Although Yeshua was the eternal One without fault or flaw, He HAD to be put through this ordeal in order to become the "perfect" Son. Perfect meaning not just without flaw, it also means consumated. See the Strongs meaning of the greek word used in this passage below:

teleioō
tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.


If one is to ask how could Jesus be made to suffer and sacrifice the answer is in the following passage in Philippians...

Phi 2:5 For let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Phi 2:6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
Phi 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phi 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a name which is above every name,
Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
Phi 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


The One who was equal to God divested or as the greek text says, emptied Himself of all the qualities that made Him as God......

kenoō
ken-o'-o
From G2756; to make empty, that is, (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify: - make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

and became as a bond slave and humilated Himself unto death in obedience.
Why did He do this....We go back to the text in Hebrews for our answer.

Heb 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things pertaining to God, so that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins,
Heb 5:2 who can have compassion on the ignorant and on those who are out of the way. For he himself also is compassed with weakness.
Heb 5:3 And because of this he should, as for the people, so also for himself, offer for sins.

Sooo....In order to have compassion on the "ignorant" (greek word for this has the same root as agnostic!!!)(Yes Stu there is a Jesus Christ and He has compassion on folks like you....)

agnoeō
ag-no-eh'-o
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3539; not to know (through lack of information or intelligence); by implication to ignore (through disinclination): - (be) ignorant (-ly), not know, not understand, unknown.

And is also compassionate towards those who are out of the way (i.e. lost) because He Himself was clothed as it were with human weakness and fraility!!
This makes him the called and chosen one of God to put away sin forevermore. His obedience and suffering has made a way those who believe to come to God.

Heb 10:1 For the Law which has a shadow of good things to come, not the very image of the things, appearing year by year with the same sacrifices, which they offer continually, they are never able to perfect those drawing near.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? Because the worshipers, when they had been once for all purged, would have had no more conscience of sin.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Therefore when He comes into the world, He says, "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You have prepared a body for Me.
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then I said, Lo, I come (in the volume of the Book it is written of Me) to do Your will, O God."
Heb 10:8 Above, when He said, "Sacrifice and offering, and burnt offerings and offering for sin You did not desire, neither did You have pleasure in them" (which are offered according to the Law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "Lo, I come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first so that He may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By this will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And indeed every priest stands daily ministering and offering often the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
Heb 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God,
Heb 10:13 from then on expecting until His enemies are made His footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

What an honor! A thread for me. Wow!

Let me answer your question.

The first thing that comes to mind is the constant use of the word, 'submitting', used 5 times.

In fact, you defined it to me, "willingly allowing it to happen".


Let's examine this definition:

1> When I was a young child my father taught me how to box. He "willingly" let me hit him as hard as I could in his stomach. Since I was only 4 or 5 at the time, I could not hurt him more than a feather could hurt a horse. Of course he knew that, before he volunteered to be hit, so it was not a sacrifice. If Jesus was our Father our God, could anything 'hurt' him more than I could hurt my father by punching him in the stomach?

2> A God is by definition; infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, etc. By measuring a God in mortal terms you must divide human quantities by infinity. Thus anything divided by infinity is almost exactly zero.

3> Omniscient means to know everything. If Jesus knew the future and that the future was bright and 'resurrected', a moment in infinity is negligible.

4> Now back to the word 'submitting'. If a band of Roman soldiers carried a person to a cross, would the human be 'submitting' or was s/he being forced?
The 100,000 Jews that were crucified did not willingly submit; they were forced. They died.

5> Being 'killed' and then being 'unkilled' (resurrected) is no sacrifice.
It is exactly like my example of donating and getting a refund, zero sacrifice.

6> "Wearing a crown of thorns", Yikes!!!! So outrageously unstylish. Yes! That is a sacrifice!

Now, I am thoroughly confused on why you or anyone else brought Jesus and/or God into this thread.

I never mentioned them.

I just wanted the questions (you said "question," and that makes me think you see only one, when there are actually 6 of them) answered with a yes or no as presented.

Can you do that?

Thanks,

Henry Franklin

[P.S. to all other posters: If you have posted to this thread, and you are quoting scripture, why?]

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by HenryBowman

Now, I am thoroughly confused on why you or anyone else brought Jesus and/or God into this thread.


[P.S. to all other posters: If you have posted to this thread, and you are quoting scripture, why?]

Oh come now! Confused? On a RELIGIOUS Forum?

I asked about 'sacrifice' (in my thread) specifically and only in relation to Jesus. I know it, and so does everyone else. Let's not kid around. Agree?

To ask the series of questions for a human is disingenuous.

Using scripture. Why indeed? Is it because they cannot think for themselves?

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

Oh come now! Confused? On a RELIGIOUS Forum?

I asked about 'sacrifice' (in my thread) specifically and only in relation to Jesus. I know it, and so does everyone else. Let's not kid around. Agree?

To ask the series of questions for a human is disingenuous.

Using scripture. Why indeed? Is it because they cannot think for themselves?

To say (or insinuate) that Jesus was not human is also disingenuous, but that is irrelevant. This thread is about my questions.

Can you answer them or not?

I am not kidding around. I am asking you 6 yes or no questions.

Are you running from that? It appears you are trying to make me look as if I am saying something that I am not saying. I am not referring to "your" thread, I am not asking for your commentary on the questions, I am not asking for your psychoanalysis on my questions.

I am simply asking you to answer them for me.

Can you?

Henry Franklin

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by HenryBowman

To say (or insinuate) that Jesus was not human is also disingenuous, but that is irrelevant. This thread is about my questions.

Can you answer them or not?

I am not kidding around. I am asking you 6 yes or no questions.

Are you running from that? It appears you are trying to make me look as if I am saying something that I am not saying. I am not referring to "your" thread, I am not asking for your commentary on the questions, I am not asking for your psychoanalysis on my questions.

I am simply asking you to answer them for me.

Can you?

Henry Franklin

Is submitting to being beaten a sacrifice? Yes or No.
No you would have to be either insane or a masochist.

Is submitting to being killed a sacrifice? Yes or No.
No, just insane.

Is submitting to wearing a crown of thorns a sacrifice? Yes or No.
Depends if the thorns are innies or outies.

Is submitting to being crucified a sacrifice? Yes or No.
No, just insane.

Is submitting to any type of suffering a sacrifice (when it can be avoided)? Yes or No.
No you would have to be either insane or a masochist.

Is submitting to sentence of death when no wrong has been done a sacrifice? Yes or No.

No, just insane.

[Livefire]

Henry,

If the person who is the subject of your questions was a BDSM extremist, the answers to all of you questions would be a resounding NO!!! They would be getting their rocks off due a serious deficiency in their psyche. Since we all know that Stu loves to go around the mountain with God/Jesus issues, it is appropriate to comment using scripture. It boils all down to this...an Omnipotent, Omniscient Being WILLINGLY emptied Himself of all of those attributes and clothed Himself in frail flesh and walked WITH men on this mudball as a MAN for 33 years. That is humiliating to say the least! The source of His power and prophetic utterances DID NOT come from within His own ability.....He HAD to be utterly dependent upon the Holy Spirit just like we do And because He has sat where I now sit....He has compassion and lives forever to make intercession for lil' ol me! Its one thing to be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (prophetic promise)....its another to be the Son of Man who is the consumation and substance of that promise due to what He has suffered!!