Moved from "Proper methods of executing becoming a nontaxpayer"

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by Tommygun

You're not listening. I know you have ears, but you're not listening.

My whole point is that THERE IS NO ONE TO "BLAME" FOR ANYTHING.

If I have made errors in JUDGEMENT, I forgave myself already. I forgive the IRS for being what it IS. I forgive Robert Clarkson for filling my head with frivolity.

Do you really think that God really cares whether or not we "render unto Ceasar?" As long as we render unto Him is all that matters. And do you really think that Ceasar doesn't understand his own laws?

Earlier I made a statement that I have no right to judge anyone "unless they infringe upon my right to do likewise". That was wrong...I have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO JUDGE ANYONE FOR ANYTHING. PERIOD. Whether or not my fragile "EGO" percieves as good, bad or whatever.

What you accuse me of "bootlicking" is merely that I have forgiven my brothers for "they know not what they do". Nowhere in God's words is there a commandment that any of us "fight" anyone for anything. That is why my brain hurts after I have felt like I'm fighting you...my brothers. That is where the mix-up is. The early christians who were fed to the lions? They didn't have to wind up there merely to "please God". No one asked them, including their creator, to die for his sake.

You might say "But wait a minute! If someone is robbing me, or stealing from me I have to defend my rights and my person and my posessions".

But what does the word of God say IMFREE? He says if a man asks for your shirt, give him your cloak also. If he strikes you, the Christ says not only do you not strike him back, but you TURN THE OTHER CHEEK. The reason he allowed himself to die on the cross was not because it was what God wanted, nor was is because he thought it would please God that he suffer, but to prove to ALL OF US that nothing of the flesh of this world really matters.

Your battle against the IRS is one of the flesh Imfree. What I learned is not that I must "bow to Ceasar" nor that I must "resist" him either. My happiness does not require that I suffer just to prove a point!

I think this belongs on another thread at this point, because as Ice and IMfree have stated, I've quoted none of Ceasar's laws and I don't intend to.
I'm not here to "prove" or even to "disprove" anything. That's my point altogether.

Capice?

Act 5:29 "We must obey God rather than men." When man's law says do this or that and it is in violation of YHWH's Law are we to follow man's law? You can't even cite Caesar's law that we are supposedly violating. If it does not exist then how can it be violated. YHWH has never told us to bow to a tyrrant. He has never said it's ok let man extort from you, rob you!! The first bpart of John 10:10 "The thief comes to only to steal, and kill, and destroy." I suppose you would have us all just let the gubment steal from us and just let it happen, eh? Another thing, how do you know my battle is of the flesh Tommygun? Do you know me personally? Do know my walk with YHWH?

YHWH is not going to fight our battles if we have the ability. What is our motive? Is it for His glory or ours? He fought when His children could not win on their own. This is shown throughout the Scriptures. Examples are when Moses went against Pharaoh, David and Goliath, Jericho, and many others I can't recall off the top of my head. In everyone of those instances YHWH fought the battle because His servants would have lost without His power.

Revelation 21:7, 8 "He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his YHWH and he will be My son. But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimestone, which is the second death." The above quote says that YHWH with deal with the ungodly at judgment. Does that mean we have to bow to them while we are here? I think not. I worship no man, but the one that gave me life, YHWH.

I could share so much more with you, but I would be here for weeks. Will I let the gubment destroy myself and my family. I am to protect them and to be their spiritual leader and to follow the dictates and commandments of my Father. I am to do His will and occupy till He returns. Doing His will does not mean bowing to a tyrrant under color of law.

One last point. You said "Do you really think that God really cares whether or not we "render unto Ceasar?" The answer to that question is YES!! If we do not render to Him first out of love and worship we are disobedient. When people render to Caesar and forget about YHWH He most definitely cares. He wants our undivided attention. He wants all of us and our pupose in life is to render worship to our heavenly Father, not a tyrrant who extorts from His people. Will I continue to resist? You bet I will, until I meet Him, I will resist.

[weishaupt1776]

TG, have you done a thorough, systematic study of scripture regarding

The Christian & Civil Government ?

A yes or no is fine. A narrative answer void of affirmation or denial will be deemed non responsive and will be objected to at all times


Anyway, I encourage you to listen to those mp3's BEFORE posting anything more on the subject. I am interested in dialoguing on it further.

If it is something you wish to dialogue on, I have started a thread

called Romans 13 / Ceasar

[suijuris]

TG,

I am still waiting for you to reply with direct answers to my post also.

Lots of reading to do on those links, Wies...I'll have to get back to you.
Thanks for putting them up for me though.

SJ, didn't mean to ignore your request for a response, but I had to back up a bit to find your post...a lot to digest.

I'll let my brain, and spirit, chew on those a bit and then I'll get back to you.

Have a good weekend fellas, Oh, and Wies...I play a '77 Les Paul that I've had since I was 14.

[weishaupt1776]

post your amplifier type here

http://forum.suijuris.net/showthread...2744#post32744

Originally Posted by suijuris

TG,

I am still waiting for you to reply with direct answers to my post also.

Back over on the original thread, SJ.

But I'll put a quick thought here...I was sorry to read in one of your responses to my posts that my stance only made you want to re-double your efforts to continue the fight. I Guess in that regard, my efforts yeilded the wrong result.

However, it also proves one of my points...that the harder you fight something, the harder it fights you right back.

Just like the steam engine, the bi-plane, the typewriter and the black and white television, the Income Tax will someday fall out of disuse. But if we try to FORCE it out of disuse, and God forbid..succeed!, then we may be very sad and disapointed indeed at what comes along to replace it. So, we'd better be very careful about what we ask for because by HIS LAW...we'll get it, and it may not turn out to be what we thought we wanted.

It has been hard for me to come here and discuss a painful part of my past that I wish I could just forget and not get a bit wound-up about it, so again I'm sorry if I offended anyone...but it made me realize the truth and that is by getting emotional, and suspending REASON, and by ATTACKING...we only make our "enemies" stronger.

And in reality, who you thought was your enemy, was never really your enemy to begin with.

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

TG, have you done a thorough, systematic study of scripture regarding

The Christian & Civil Government ?

A yes or no is fine. A narrative answer void of affirmation or denial will be deemed non responsive and will be objected to at all times


Anyway, I encourage you to listen to those mp3's BEFORE posting anything more on the subject. I am interested in dialoguing on it further.

If it is something you wish to dialogue on, I have started a thread

called Romans 13 / Ceasar

OK, gave it an honest read. I Didn't, however, listen to the mp3s...sorry, but just plain don't have time.

But here's my basic response and I'll have to leave it here...I read all those opinions back in "the day" when I was following Clarkson's advice. It all made sense at the time to me too that we "no longer live under Ceasar/ the Constitution is our Ceasar and the Constitution is We the People and not the US Gov't".

But the way i feel about it NOW, is that these preachers are basically trying to outsmart Jesus himself by saying, "Well, Jesus lived in Ceasar's time, he didn't know that someday his children would invent the Constitutional Republic thereby rendering HIS WORD useless. We, the preachers, know what we're talking about and if Jesus were here today, we'd instruct Him on the 3 branches of government and the separation of powers".

Sorry, Weis, but I don't buy it anymore. His word is Timeless, and unlike Governments or any other creations of mortal man, it is permanent and doesn't change.