Christianity - smoke and more smoke

That is one big "IF".

Very true... but so many unexplained phenomena (like 'life after life' experiences, past life regressions under hypnosis, children remembering past lives, amazing instances of internal guidance and intuition, etc.,) can only be explained by eternal consciousness and reincarnation.

It is your imagination that fills the voids.

At least my portion of the voids... (smile)

Consiousness cannot be measured, weighed, etc.

That is why our dominant left-brains have so much trouble accepting it.

When a music cassette tape is burned, is the music destroyed?

Personally, I don't think so. Ever wonder why some kids seem to be born with musical talent and the capacity to compose beyond the talents of their progenitors?

If your brain is destroyed, aren't your memories gone too?

Not according to the folks who've experienced past life regressions... or the kids who've remembered past lives and guided adults to the locations in which they remember having lived before, and identified people and places there.

Why should there be any difference between DNA cells and magnetic iron oxide orientation particles from a cassette?

There seems to be no difference in terms of pure atomic matter... but notice the incredible organization behind the DNA.

>It appears to be occupied by the intelligence behind the universe.<

Appears? To whom? How does it appear? Behind the universe? Is that like behind a billboard?

LOL... no... it must be "the man behind the curtain"... the great and powerful OZ!!! LOL

It really is difficult to come up with the best descriptive term ... OK...
how about "over, in, around and throughout" the universe? Occupying all of the "space" that exists between particles that make up "matter".

*

[BoyntonStu]

>Very true... but so many unexplained phenomena (like 'life after life' experiences, past life regressions under hypnosis, children remembering past lives, amazing instances of internal guidance and intuition, etc.,) can only be explained by eternal consciousness and reincarnation. <


Let's add to this 'truth' list.

Healing at Fatima.

Bleeding Virgin Mary statues.

Jesus toast.

Abduction by space aliens.

Crop ring circles.

Astrologers

Lotto winners.

Cancer survivors.


>These can only be explained by eternal consciousness and reincarnation<


Really, the ONLY explanation? what happened to the lost souls whose internal guidance failed and who died in the wilderness?


Ever see a really good magician perform? It's magic! Believe me.


stU

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

>Very true... but so many unexplained phenomena (like 'life after life' experiences, past life regressions under hypnosis, children remembering past lives, amazing instances of internal guidance and intuition, etc.,) can only be explained by eternal consciousness and reincarnation. <


Let's add to this 'truth' list.

Healing at Fatima.

Bleeding Virgin Mary statues.

Jesus toast.

Abduction by space aliens.

Crop ring circles.

Astrologers

Lotto winners.

Cancer survivors.


>These can only be explained by eternal consciousness and reincarnation<


Really, the ONLY explanation? what happened to the lost souls whose internal guidance failed and who died in the wilderness?


Ever see a really good magician perform? It's magic! Believe me.


stU

INTERESTING DISCUSSION GOING ON HERE. IT'S REMARKABLE HOW WE HUMANS ALWAYS TRY COME UP WITH STRANGE EXPLANATIONS INSTEAD OF FINDING THE SIMPLEST ONE. ACCORDING TO OCCAM'S RAZOR MOST OF THE TIME THE SIMPLEST MODEL IS MORE LIKELY TO BE CORRECT - ESPECIALLY WHEN WORKING WITH UNUSUAL PHENOMENON.

A real life example of Occam's Razor in practice goes as follows:
Crop circles began to be reported in the 1970s. Two interpretations were made of the circles of matted grass. One was that flying saucers made the imprints. The other was that someone (human) had used some sort of instruments to push down the grass. Occam's Razor would say that given the lack of evidence for flying saucers and the complexity involved in getting UFOs from distant galaxies to arrive on earth (unseen and traveling faster than the speed of light I suppose) the second interpretation is simplest. The second explanation could be wrong, but until further facts present themself it remains the preferable theory. As it turns out, Occam's Razor was right as two people admitted to making the original crop figures in the 1990s (and the rest have apparently been created by copy-cats). Despite this fact, some people still ignore Occam's Razor and instead continue to believe that crop circles are being created by flying saucers.

I RECOMMEND EVERYONE HERE TO CHECK OUT THIS BOOK:
"Why People Believe Weird Things"

[wisper]

Ian Stevenson has spent decades of his life studying this and other phenomenon suggestive of the survival of an eternal consciousness:
end quote>>>>

Girl, based on what I am reading, I'll bet you will become as I am, an admirer of Howard Bloom, *THE GLOBAL MIND*

WISPER, I looked up Howard Bloom on Amazon right after I read your post (above) this AM and I am definitely interested in reading at least 2 of his books - Lucifer Principle and Global Brain (as you've suggested). I read reviews of them both, and this quote below is an excerpt from one of the best-written reviews of Lucifer Principle (bold emphasis mine):

Another characteristic of superorganisms, according to Bloom, is that they give themselves myths and identify enemies, in order to create an identity and a social cohesion. We humans have created memes to control other humans. And by the way, memes can produce peace and progress, or backwardness and hatred, and so there are substantial differences in the quality of different cultures, and not the other way around, like multiculturalists sustain. Either totally accurate or not, this book is an eye-opener and an agent provocateur of intelligent debate, and so it is most welcome.

This is an intelligent debate and I am enjoying it!

And StU, I understand your skepticism, believe me. I am aware that such things as crop circles and Jesus toast have certainly been well debunked by now... but metaphysical phenomenon like the Healing at Fatima (and many many other well-documented instances of "spiritual healing" and results of prayer), people recalling past lives and being able to verify the facts thereof; near death experiences and out of body experiences after which people report events and activities they could not otherwise have known; inner 'leadings' and 'guidance' that turn out to be accurate and often life-saving have not been debunked and have not been explained away. Personally, I agree with Ernest Holmes that these phenomena strongly indicate the eternal nature of our individual consciousness and its connection to the universal Mind.

Wisper - on first examination of the reviews of Bloom's books, I can see a similar belief in a universal mind (Bloom calls it 'global brain'). My personal 'paranormal' experiences have convinced me that I do have access to info beyond what I have learned on my own, or know from personal experiences. The Science of Mind philosophy is consistent with these experiences of mine.

BTW - the concept behind the Dances of Universal Peace is that spreading this group practice and its mindset can help to alter the global pattern of religious and/or secular war and conflict. They are creating a peace "meme".

http://www.dancesofuniversalpeace.org/main.htm

*

[BoyntonStu]

(and many many other well-documented instances of "spiritual healing" and results of prayer),


I lost 2 friends on the Sioux City airplane crash.

There were many killed and also many survivors, including the children of my friends who became orphans. They sat one row in front of their parents.

All prayed. Some died, some lived. Miraculous? NOT!

Go to any hospital today and visit the waiting room outside of intensive care.

Lots of prayers. The patients that live; "Thank God". The ones that die?


It is only what you choose to believe, not what factually happened.


Again, it is the definition of words in your mental dictionary that create your reality and your belief system.


Read, "The Tyranny of Words", and you may become free of the shackles.


stU

I respect your feelings, StU, and I understand your skepticism. Personally, I don't expect prayer, or any other contributing "energy" to have a universally consistent effect. I think there are always many many variables. After reading a lot of Ernest Holmes, I find myself agreeing with him that ALL of our minds, individually and collectively, do have an effect upon circumstances and outcomes.

Katherine Kuhlman is said to have commented that she did not understand why everyone was not healed... but some always were. I personally prayed for a former husband of mine who was experiencing blood in his urine, and had been x-rayed by a urologist who found a pea-sized lump in this renal vein. He was due for a laproscopy (passing the little flexible camera tube up the urethra) in a few days to closely examine this blockage, and several of his friends and family laid hands on him and prayed intensely for several minutes. Two days later, he visited the urologist and the lump had disappeared.

I've had numerous psychic experiences, and it seems that the more receptive I am, the more they occur. For instance... while searching for my birthmother (I am adopted) I learned her name from the adoption papers in my adoptive mother's safe deposit box after her death, and using my birthmother's name (off the adoption papers) I learned of her divorce, obtained her divorce papers from many years ago, and learned that I had 4 half-siblings from her previous marriage. As I read the divorce papers, and contemplated the names of my siblings, I thought about finding my brothers, because their names would not have changed through marriage and they should be easiest to track down. While I was contemplating my oldest brother's name on the list, I received one of those mysterious internal messages. It was a distinct warning: "Don't call your oldest brother... he will not accept you at first. Call your youngest brother instead." This message was very strong and very clear. I obeyed this instruction, and the warning turned out to be absolutely correct. My youngest brother was thrilled that I called him because, he said, he was the youngest and always the last one to be told anything. Now he could enjoy being the one to inform all the others first. As it turned out, my oldest brother was very uncomfortable with my finding the family, because my illigitimate birth and being given away for adoption was an embarrassment to my mother and had been kept a secret. The other three all welcomed me, and it took my oldest brother a few weeks to get used to the idea. Had I reached out to him first, I would no doubt have been hurt and rejected. Someone had protected me through a psychic communication. Was it my deceased birth mother? I didn't know it at the time, but she had already been dead for several years when I found my siblings... her first four children. Their father had left her for another younger woman, and she had an affair with my birthfather on the rebound... and got pregnant (me). She did not choose to marry my birthfather, and instead, gave me up for adoption, hoping to win back her former husband (unsuccessful). After failing to win him back, I am told that she regretted giving me away and always remembered my birthday, and hoped I would someday find my relatives. Was it her spirit who protected and guided me? How else could that clear instruction have been delivered to me at just the right time? Or was it guidance from the universal Mind? I cannot be certain from whom it came... but I DO know that it happened.

One day I received a clear warning that I was about to get a flat in my left front tire, and to be ready... I was going 65 MPH on the Ventura Fwy in Los Angeles. A few seconds later, it happened... the tire blew, the car lurched to the left, and I was prepared to control the car.

I could go on... there have been many other similar incidents of psychic input which protected and/or informed me. This is why I do believe in spiritual guidance... and why no one can convince me otherwise. I don't need organized religion... I don't need a "holy book"... I only need to be receptive to the guidance that is offered me. It has sparked my curiosity and my desire to comprehend it, though.

*

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by Heidi Guedel

I respect your feelings, StU, and I understand your skepticism. Personally, I don't expect prayer, or any other contributing "energy" to have a universally consistent effect. I think there are always many many variables. After reading a lot of Ernest Holmes, I find myself agreeing with him that ALL of our minds, individually and collectively, do have an effect upon circumstances and outcomes.

Katherine Kuhlman is said to have commented that she did not understand why everyone was not healed... but some always were. I personally prayed for a former husband of mine who was experiencing blood in his urine, and had been x-rayed by a urologist who found a pea-sized lump in this renal vein. He was due for a laproscopy (passing the little flexible camera tube up the urethra) in a few days to closely examine this blockage, and several of his friends and family laid hands on him and prayed intensely for several minutes. Two days later, he visited the urologist and the lump had disappeared.

I've had numerous psychic experiences, and it seems that the more receptive I am, the more they occur. For instance... while searching for my birthmother (I am adopted) I learned her name from the adoption papers in my adoptive mother's safe deposit box after her death, and using my birthmother's name (off the adoption papers) I learned of her divorce, obtained her divorce papers from many years ago, and learned that I had 4 half-siblings from her previous marriage. As I read the divorce papers, and contemplated the names of my siblings, I thought about finding my brothers, because their names would not have changed through marriage and they should be easiest to track down. While I was contemplating my oldest brother's name on the list, I received one of those mysterious internal messages. It was a distinct warning: "Don't call your oldest brother... he will not accept you at first. Call your youngest brother instead." This message was very strong and very clear. I obeyed this instruction, and the warning turned out to be absolutely correct. My youngest brother was thrilled that I called him because, he said, he was the youngest and always the last one to be told anything. Now he could enjoy being the one to inform all the others first. As it turned out, my oldest brother was very uncomfortable with my finding the family, because my illigitimate birth and being given away for adoption was an embarrassment to my mother and had been kept a secret. The other three all welcomed me, and it took my oldest brother a few weeks to get used to the idea. Had I reached out to him first, I would no doubt have been hurt and rejected. Someone had protected me through a psychic communication. Was it my deceased birth mother? I didn't know it at the time, but she had already been dead for several years when I found my siblings... her first four children. Their father had left her for another younger woman, and she had an affair with my birthfather on the rebound... and got pregnant (me). She did not choose to marry my birthfather, and instead, gave me up for adoption, hoping to win back her former husband (unsuccessful). After failing to win him back, I am told that she regretted giving me away and always remembered my birthday, and hoped I would someday find my relatives. Was it her spirit who protected and guided me? How else could that clear instruction have been delivered to me at just the right time? Or was it guidance from the universal Mind? I cannot be certain from whom it came... but I DO know that it happened.

One day I received a clear warning that I was about to get a flat in my left front tire, and to be ready... I was going 65 MPH on the Ventura Fwy in Los Angeles. A few seconds later, it happened... the tire blew, the car lurched to the left, and I was prepared to control the car.

I could go on... there have been many other similar incidents of psychic input which protected and/or informed me. This is why I do believe in spiritual guidance... and why no one can convince me otherwise. I don't need organized religion... I don't need a "holy book"... I only need to be receptive to the guidance that is offered me. It has sparked my curiosity and my desire to comprehend it, though.

*

Beginning today, keep a list of all your spitual guidancees. Let us know the positive as well as the negative results. Do you ever remember being wrong?

Do you believe that what happened to your former husband is unique and that his cure was because he was such a good person that the creator of the Milky Way specifically intervened on his behalf taking a little time out from contolling Nature to notice your friends 'laying on hands"?


Remarkable. Not! Read the book.

stU

StU wrote:

Beginning today, keep a list of all your spitual guidancees. Let us know the positive as well as the negative results. Do you ever remember being wrong?

I do remember being wrong... but it has usually been when I've ignored or countermanded the inner guidance. Also - if I try to "force it", the results are undependable. It is only when it comes to me unexpected and unbidden that it really turns out to be the most accurate and helpful. I cannot control it, and I do not fully comprehend the source.

StU wrote:

Do you believe that what happened to your former husband is unique and that his cure was because he was such a good person that the creator of the Milky Way specifically intervened on his behalf taking a little time out from contolling Nature to notice your friends 'laying on hands"?

No. I realize that it was not unique, because of the other healings which have been documented and that I've learned about... and the attempted faith healings that have failed. There are obviously variables. And at this point, I do not think there is a benevolent "creator of the Milky Way" that makes decisions about whom to help and whom not to help.

From the research I've read and the personal experiences I've had, it appears to be a collective consciousness of which we are each a tiny and eternal part... and which is creative as a whole. The universe would have to be a manifestation (creation) of this collective Mind. Of course this is speculation based upon various interesting phenomena, but it makes far more sense to me than either nihilism or organized religion. I have personally experienced guidance from "otherwhere" and I am seeking to understand it. Also, I don't expect it to be perfect. As part of a collective Mind, I expect variables and imperfections. The expectation of perfection is probably the most unbelievable aspect of organized religion. If this collective Mind exists, I believe it must reflect the sum total of its parts... which means fallibility would be inescapable ... along with instances of incomprehensible brilliance - the full spectrum. It appears to me that individual living creatures are each a microcosm of the collective Mind's total creativity. Some of these creations are not very nice... at least from our point of view (i.e. anopheles mosquitos...).

[BoyntonStu]

It is said that it you place a pregnant woman on an island, she will instinctively 'know' what to do when the baby comes. We are talking about even the most citified of women.


How does a robin 'know' when and how to make a circular nest?

The information is programmed into the DNA.

Same with a homing pigeon who 'knows' where home is hundreds of miles away.


If the pregnant woman and these animals would talk, they would probably say that a "universal intelligence' is speaking to them and guiding them.


I would agree that 'something' is speaking to them, but unless proven otherwise, the information is programmed in by evolution and not something to pray to.


IMHO the cultural information influenced your decision and your choice or words.


stU