Religion Spell of ignorance

[iamfreeru2]

Jerseee,



All one needs to prove the Bible to be accurate is Bible prophecy fulfilled. If you know the Scriptures then you will see that every prophecy spoken of in the Bible has come to pass. That is my proof.



Christ died on the cross and this is a historcal fact. The fact that many people saw Christ after his resurrection validates it. When you go to the manuscrpts we have of the Hebrew, the Greek, etc. and compare them with the translations of the Scriptures, they all agree. I am not talking about paraphrases, as those are someone's own meaning.



There are more and more archiological findings that render the Bible to be correct. Carbon dating has been proven to not be reliable. And the big bang theory that something happened from nothing does not hold water.



You say this is not argument, it is lively debate. I disagree, as debating is arguing. That is why they call it argument when two apposing parties go at in court, each to prove their point. I do not have to prove what the Bible says. It bares witness of itself.



The Bible says: "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man. For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE SHOULD INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ."



When you are born again and are a believer, then the Holy Spirit gives you th understanding needed to interpret correctly the word of God. When Christ went to be with the Father a helper was sent to us, the Holy Spirit. This is how I know Scripture to be correct. It is called the K.I.S.S. principle. Keep It Simple Stupid, God said what He meant and meant what He said. God said it so therefore it is settled.



Have a great weekend all. This is my last post on this.

iamfreeru2

[iamfreeru2]

I forgot to put the Scripture verse you can find the last qoute from. It is I Corinthians 2: 14-16.



iamfreeru2

I am going to take liberty and answer Jerseee's post as well.



Prove that Christ Rose from the dead? I'll get to that in a moment



Prove that Scripture is the Word of God?



On Heaven or Hell, No one can attest to that, but in the same way, one cannot attest that Jail is a bad place if they have never been there. Yet, people will say "I don't want to go to jail, but they have no clue expect but what has been reported to them.



On Proving that Scripture is the word of God, it really works the same way as "proving" that the constitution was written. It has been do***ented, and one either believes the do***entation or one doesn't. Technically speaking, there is no way to absolutely "prove" anything. Somewhere along the line, you will have to take at faith some part of the chain. I didn't actually see the Consitiution written. Nor did I see it being signed.



Did the scientist get his material from the SAME source? Were they grown at the SAME rate? Yada yada yada...



Somewhere you will have to believe the do***entation or not.



I know this one fact. There is power in the name of Jesus, because my wife is alive. I spoke it over her, and she began to breathe. I had tried everything else I could have tried at the moment, being in shock from the same accident.



I also saw her healed in another miraculous way after I invoked the name of Jesus in the situation with authority.



Prove it? I can tell you about it, but you didn't see the wreck. You didn't see blood coming out of every opening in her head . You didn't see her lifeless, non-responsive body. So proof is lacking. But the truth remains.



For the last year, I have seen more than the miraculous in the money realm.



I am not a saint, nor am I a pie in the sky holy roller. I just know unconditional love, and I still have problems accepting it, even though he has "proven" it time and again.

[Jerseee]

iamfree,



Anyone can bear witness to scripture. That is not the in contention here. I can bear witness through some scripture as I have experienced some of the things that are spoken of.



No one is going to doubt the writings. I am speaking of first hand knowledge. Do yo have it?



I said once before in this thread, Christ is not a person. Everyone has a christ. Everyone will have to one day choose their salvation through their christ. Jesus died on the cross. Christ did not.



From my experience, I truly believe that this was one of the main reasons why God/the Creator gave us freewill. You cannot know christ if you do not experience it.



In your third paragraph, you praise science and dismiss it at the same time. You cannot prove that Jesus rose from the dead but testify to it. You cannot prove that the big bang theory is invalid and you testify to that as well. And what is more amazing about that whole position is that they are both written. Hhmmm Interesting.



I did not ask you to prove what the bible says, I basically asked you how can you bear witness and testify to something you have not experienced?



Also, you are proving biblical scripture through science and through helter skelter.



I am not arguing about scripture. I am asking for proof of your claim. I can testify about losing a child and it is do***ented. I write my testimony for the world to read and for those that experience this same situation, please testify on behalf that what is written is true.



I can testify about debt and credit. I have written on this and experienced the ups and downs of this situation. Folks here testify to my experience as truth because they have experienced it as well. That is the power of scripture---testimony.



Which brings me back to my question: How can you bear witness to something you have not experienced nor seen?



I am not debating, arguing or whatever about the bible, my questions are not the validity of the scriptures, my question is that one of experience.



You may not wish to speak on this again (freewill), but you can never escape the meeting with your christ. You will have to choose one day and then you should testify about it to help your fellow man/woman.

[Jerseee]

HB,



Good post. My response:



No one is questioning faith.



You can bear witness to something and it is written. So you can speak on the power of "In the Name of Jesus".



But have you seen heaven or hell? Or have you experienced either one on earth?



Jail is not just a place--it is a feeling as well. One can imprison themselves and not want that feeling ever again. But to physically be imprisoned is Jail to the second power. I can testify to that.



The Constitution is written and you can bear witness to it because you can experience it anytime you wish. But when you don't use the scripture as a teaching tool to use and get experience from it--then it is useless to you.



One person may not want to live without the Constitution; another could care less about it since they have not used it to get the experience to testify of its power. This is what makes scripture---"scripture".



Nor am I a holy roller but, I will not testify to something that I know not to be true through my experience. I have experience a type of hell here on earth as I have experienced a type of heaven or bliss as well. But I cannot truthfully say that hell is below us and heaven is above us; That hell is a bad place and heaven is a good place; That Jesus rose from the dead and that the devil has hooved feet and horns.



This is what I am driving at. Don't speak on something if you have not experienced it-----its dishonorable.



God bless your wife HB.

[iamfreeru2]

Jerseee,



You do not have to experience something to know it is the truth. Whether you or I believe it is the truth or not does not matter. Truth is still truth.



Have I experienced the love of God ? The answer is yes. Has he healed me of cancer ? Again the answer is yes. Has he saved my soul? Again, yes How do I know this because His word says so. That is good enough for me.



God wrote the Scriptures through men that penned it. If He worte it and by that I mean directed it's writing, then there is no error in it. If there were God would not be God.



Christ is a real person and is a historical fact. History also proves he was crucified. Eye witness accounts prove His resurrection and is written about.



There are many things that have been written in the history books. Does that mean because we did not experience it or live in that day that they are untrue? Of course not. You logic does not make since.



As I said before I do not have to prove Scripture accurate, Scripture proves itself accurate. I do not have the luxury of picking and choosing what is true or not, as I am not God.



We are now arguing and I will no longer do this. You either believe God is God or you don't. And if He is God then He is able to direct the writings accurately and His word is true.



Thanks for the opportunity to share.



iamfreeru2

[Jerseee]

iamfree,



Thanks for sharing. Moving right along.....



I am making sense. Read my posts carefully before responding with how you feel about the issue. No one is challenging your faith directly.



I asked a series of questions about bearing witness. Now, instead of "arguing" (which is what you're doing) why not just answer the question? Which by the way, is not an argumentative question. It is either yes, I have or no, I have not.



One main reason I know why folks that I speak with on this issue will not answer those questions, is because they do not want to admit that they do not know. And admitting something like that will shake up their belief system. It can also lead someone to actually take more responsibility in life when these types of questions are asked. God helps those that help themselves.



I am not challenging anyone's faith directly--I am only asking pertinent questions that are valid to ask. Since asking these questions might lead one to be breaking one of the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not bear false witness", I would be reluctant to answer as well (if I was deep into religion).



I am making total sense by asking questions. Would you have a minister/bishop/rabbi/whomever preach to you about something they have not experienced first hand and testify to it?



Teaching scripture is one thing. Testifying is another.



More importantly, please do not infer that I do or don't believe in God/The Creator/Allah. If you can prove that I do not then so be it.



This is exactly the reasons for my questions. I am not questioning the teachings. I am questioning how can folks testify to something without first hand knoweldge of it? A great answer would be "blind faith".



If you believe that christ was a person--that is your right. I am merely explaining what christ is which is my right.



It is good to hear of your recovery and I thank god for that you are sharing your experiences with us. thanks

[iamfreeru2]

Jerseee,



To answer your question, prove your claim that what I have said is incorrect. I will say it again my proof is the Bible itself. That is all the proof I need and I satnd by it.. God wrote it and that settles the matter. You are not challenging my faith and could not.





iamfreeru2

[LUKE2447]

iamfree ...I must agree with you. You have the witness it is others that have to disprove the witness itself and that is the book not you. I give witness in that I know God is real by the very fact of life around me that I am witness to! I give witness to the savior of my soul by the healings to me personaly and many others that I know personaly which where healed by the authority and faith in the name of Jesus Christ. That is just the start!

[Jerseee]

Is anyone even reading what I write?



Although it may not be desireable what I write, but the response should be to what I write. Once again, I am not advocating disbelief in the Almighty. I believe in God as well but I'm not questioning faith. This would be silly.



In any event, if there be anyone who would like to answer my questions--I will respond to those answers.



I will not respond to answers about testifying to teachings that cannot be proven by use of faith, since I am not questioning faith--I am questioning testimony.



Iamfree,



I'm not asking you to not stand by the bible. I am not advocating to abandon the teachings. I am not and could not challenge your faith. It is the questions that I have asked that does this. It is your claim of the unknown without proof that does this. You can have faith all day--this is not an issue and cannot be as I could care less about someone's faith.



Additionally, I cannot prove your testimony because I did not give your testimony. By admitting there is a heaven and hell (a place) without first hand knowledge is the type of thing I am questioning. So I cannot prove your testimony since I did not give it to you that is my answer to your question. You could have simply plead the 5th amendment So now that I have answered your question--even though my original question to you was not answered--I too will consider the matter settled.



Interesting thread--thanks for the knowledge. godspeed