tithing with FRNs

[Ice]

rushpat,


FRN's are debt certificates... and they are obligations of the U.S.& You are not giving the church "debt" you are giving them an I.O.U. that the U.S. is obligated to honor.


Ice

[suijuris]

rushpat, sorry for going off topic...

My answer to your question would simply be "No".

Sui Juris

Apologies here, as well.


Answer: No. Well, sort of.


But bringing God into a matter centered on "truth" and "reality" verses lies and deceit, and it's imperative to qualify things.


And since churches, as well as the rest of us, are forced to play along in this charade and pretend that FRNs are "money" and that "debts" can be "paid," then, well, the answer is "Yes," FRNs are perfectly acceptable for tithing.


Randy


edit:


Know what? I think I'll really play devil's advocate on this one since it is so damned relative to the topics and issues here at SJ. So let me put it this way:


IF the churches weren't in bed with the federal government and the IRS, and IF the churches weren't busy kissing the IRS's ass in order to retain their (the churches') "tax exempt" status, and IF churches really, honestly, and truly gave a rat's ass about such things as "truth," the issues HERE would be THE issues being addressed from behind the nation's pulpits!


Seriously, how many more sermons do we need about "God loves you and if you just ask Jesus to come into your life you will be saved and life will be grand and you won't burn in hell like all those bad, bad people who reject God's love and now let's sing and pray and pass the plate...."


There would have been no American Revolution without the influence of those great old Puritan preachers back then. (Yeah, so they burned "alleged" witches. It took one form of tryanny--the churches--to fight another, the state)


AND


If you really want to amuse yourself, go to the Internal Revenue Manual. Dig through it until you find "frivolous filers." Only TWO "entities" are associated with "frivolous filers." Churches and some sort of trust-thing.&


So, not only has the IRS accused me, personally, of being a "sole proprietorship," it has accused me of being a "church" or a trust.


Separation of Church and State? I wish.


Randy

I really didn't mean to hijack the thread. My mind saw the title as "tithing". Sorry about that. It's just a pandora's box when someone says "tithing" or "church" or anything connected therewith.

Read this article:

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~revival/nine-lies.html

This pretty much sums it up for me, and I am "redeemed" in tme spiritual sense of the word. (biblically)

I got an invitation yesterday to speak about this issue on a local Christian radio station.

I consider telling the truth a calling. Relevant or not.

But is you want a yes or no, NO it is.

HB

[LUKE2447]

I agree the note is a& instrument that the government is to honor! That note was given to you for your labor in exchange for something you did.& Money is nothing else than something that is backed by confidence. When someone sees the "note" as a a legit instrument to buy or pay between persons then YES it does qualify as the proper value to satisfy a tithe if you feel obligated to pay to whomever.& Sorry even though the system is messed we are payed for our labor in such instruments therefore it is a increase from your labor.& Sorry but the technical stuff does not work here guys on this issue as you are trying to make the instrument no good as exchange.&If you use it as a value and can be used as a value to gain is an increase. &No matter what the issue if you are increased with something of value you must tithe it(depending on whether you believe in tithing)& Why.... because it being a debt note or not it is what is exchanged&for value of labor&due to being backed with the idea of confidence in exchange for your LABOR.

[LUKE2447]

also another thing is if you wnat to get technical on this..... Can I go buy legal money with this FRN (gold, silver, or Norfed etc...)& The answer is YES!& Why because it is backed with confidence in exchange and therefore has value.& I understand all the aspects of what the FRN is etc..& The point is it CAN be exchanged for value in gold or silver if you so choose to buy such to pay your debts or tithe!& Simply due to confidence in value of the FRN....&ignorance or not off the legal issue if it is real money or not.

[rushpat]

That was what I was thinking about. For those that do tithe and want to tithe, perhaps they would consider buying gold and tithing with that.

[LUKE2447]

Rushpat....& it doesn't matter as the exchange can at that point obtain Gold or whatever from your instrument.& The FRN has value as it is based on "confidence"&and that was given to your for&value and use&no matter the legal aspect.& That value was given as&agreed&acceptance for your labor!& Therefore it is legit in that is your fruit or increase!

Well, let's see. Are those FRN's "redeemable," or not?


Depends upon whom you ask:<FONT face=Tahoma size=2>


http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.html


"…Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes….which then become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks, and obligations of the United States Government….Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States securities. This provides backing for the note issue…. Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them….<U>Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything</U>….The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy.<FONT face=Tahoma size=2>


Title 12, Chapter 3, Subchapter XII


Sec. 411. - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption


Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. <U>They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States</U>, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.


We're talking about the USA, the USA, Inc., BB, whatever, whomever. For my "money," anything and everything related to them/it is a lie.& The serpent from the Garden of Eden has reincarnated into the United States of America, Inc.


Randy
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