Quotes from the Koran - A Loving Religion?

[BoyntonStu]

O Believers! Take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are
but one another's friends. If any one of you takes them for his
friends, he surely is one of them! 5:56

Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which
God has gifted the one above the other. 4:38

The curse of God on the infidels! 2:83

God is an enemy to infidels. 2:92

Men are a step above women. 2:228


God, you are our protector: give us victory therefore over the infidel
nations. 2:286

As for the infidels, their wealth, and their children, shall avail them
nothing against God. 3:8

Say to the infidels: you shall be worsen, and to Hell shall you be
gathered together; and wretched the couch! 3:10


Whoso desires any other religion than Islam, that religion shall
never be accepted from him, and in the next world he shall be
among the lost. 3:79

O ye who have believed! form not intimacies among others than
yourselves. They will not fail to corrupt you. They long for your
ruin. Hatred has already shown itself out of their mouths, but
more grievous is what their breasts conceal. 3:114

O you who have believed! If you obey the infidels, they will cause
you to turn upon your heels, and you will fall back into perdition.
3:142

And if you shall be slain or die on the path of God, then pardon
from God and mercy is better than all your amassings; For if
you die or be slain, verily unto God shall you be gathered. 3:151,2



Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which
God has gifted the one above the other. 4:38


If you be sick, or on a journey, or have come from the unclean place
or have touched a woman, and you find not water, then rub pure
sand, and bathe your face and your hands with it. 4:46

Among the Jews are those who displace the words of their scriptures,
and say, We have heard, and we have not obeyed. Hear you, but as
one that hears not; and look at us; perplexing with their tongues, and
wounding the Faith by their revilings.
But if they would say, We have heard, and we obey; hear you, and
regard us; it were better for them, and more right. But God has
cursed them for their unbelief. Few only of them are believers.
4:48,9

Let those then fight on the path of God, who barter this present life
for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether
he be slain or conquer, we will in the end give him a great reward. 4:77

They who believe, fight on the path of God; and they who believe not
fight on the path of Thagout: Fight therefore against the friends of
Satan. 4:78

God has assigned to those who contend earnestly with their persons
and with their substance, a rank above those who sit at home. Goodly
promises has He made to all. But God has assigned to the strenuous
a rich recompense, above those who sit still at home. 4:97

Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! 4:102

O believers! Take not infidels for friends rather than believers. Would
you furnish God with clear right to punish you? 4:143

The male shall have the portion of two females. 4:175

And if you have become unclean, then purify yourselves. But if you
are sick, or on a journey, of if one of you come from the place of
retirement, of if you have touched women, and you find no water,
then take clean sand and rub your faces and you hands with it. 5:9

O Believers! Take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are
but one another's friends. If any one of you takes them for his
friends, he surely is one of them! 5:56

Of all men you will certainly find the Jews, and those who join other
gods with God, to be the most intense in hatred of those who believe;
and you shall certainly find those to be nearest in affection to them
who say, We are Christians.' This, because some of them are priests
and monks, and because they are free from pride. 5:85

Fight then against them until strife be at an end, and the religion be all
of it God's. 8:40

And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods
with God wherever you shall find them; and seize them, besiege them,
and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert,
and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their
way. 9:5

Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as
believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God
and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the
truth. 9:29

But alms are only to be given to the poor and the needy, and those who
collect them, and to those whose hears are won to Islam. 9:60

O Prophet! Contend against the infidels and the hypocrites, and be rigorous
with them. 9:74

Never pray you over anyone of them who dies, or stand at his grave, because
they believed not in God and His Apostle, and died in their wickedness. 9:85

But the Apostle and those who share his faith, contend for the faith with purse
and person; and these! All good things await them: and these are they who shall
be happy. 9:89



Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbors, and let them find you rigorous. 9:124

God loves not the false, the Infidel. 22:39

Give not way therefore to the Infidels, but by means ot this Koran strive
against them with a mighty strife. 25:54

Be not you helpful to the unbelievers. 28:86

Thank you stU.

It is important to bear in mind that the Bible is not the only religious book professing that all non-believers are unacceptable, going to "hell" and should be rejected. The Quran is equally responsible for such attitudes.

It has been my intention to point out, again and again, the terrible prejudices and attitudes that these organized religions have fostered, and how they have repeatedly led to religious persecution and war, century after century after century. It is time to grow up and out of such attitudes and behavior.

Let's then, meditate daily on this thought:

"My desire is that everyone I meet will feel the warmth and color of my affection. My purpose is that a feeling of goodwill shall pass from me to others. Today I embrace the world in this affection and desire so that good shall come to everyone." - Ernest Holmes

*

[iscovedel]

Boyton-

First, if you have a real desire for the truth get a better translation and check into some commentary rather than taking verse out of context and presenting them with prejudice.

For instance "infidel" means in english someone from a different religion othre than your own. However, the word they are referring to is "kaafir" it's root is "kafara" and it means to cover up or conceal, so a kaafir is one who covers up or conceals the truth the same way a farmer covers up and conceals a seed, but "God brings the living from the dead and the dead from the living" so, you can try all you want (the disbelievers try to extinguish the Light of God with their lips but God will complete His Light, even though the kufaar may hate it) but the Truth will still take root and grow wherever God Wills.

peace

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by iscovedel

Boyton-

First, if you have a real desire for the truth get a better translation and check into some commentary rather than taking verse out of context and presenting them with prejudice.

For instance "infidel" means in english someone from a different religion othre than your own. However, the word they are referring to is "kaafir" it's root is "kafara" and it means to cover up or conceal, so a kaafir is one who covers up or conceals the truth the same way a farmer covers up and conceals a seed, but "God brings the living from the dead and the dead from the living" so, you can try all you want (the disbelievers try to extinguish the Light of God with their lips but God will complete His Light, even though the kufaar may hate it) but the Truth will still take root and grow wherever God Wills.

peace

iscovedel,

Please explain this verse:

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which
God has gifted the one above the other. 4:38"

Do I not gather from this verse that men and women mean male and female adults?

stU

[iscovedel]

The verse you quoted was 4:38 which, in every authentic Qur'an on the planet states (in translation of th emeaning) "And those who spend of their wealth to be seen by the people and beleive not in God and the Last Day_and he to whom Satan is a companion, evil is his companion" Thats from the Saheeh INterenational translation. one of the best as far as ease of reading and authenticity of interpretation...

The verse your referring to (really, when you want to refute get the verse right at least, I mean read the book, don't just cut and pase from an anti-Islam site and feel satisfied, investigate open mindedly) is 4:34 a good translation of whcih is :

"Men are in charge of Women (this applies primarily to the husband-wife relationship) by right of what God has given one over the other and what they spend for maintanence from their wealth." the Qur'an 4:34

This is a classic example of the traditional, ages old heterosexual paradigm, the way mankind has lived since our creation. It doesn't indicate inferiority of one to the other but establishes the role of each gender in the society and in the marraige: the man leads the family and supports the wife and children.
then look up the actual word in arabic that you have a problem with, translated as "in charge" or (erroneously) "superior" ...the actual word in arabic is "qawwamoon" from the root "qawama" which has many meanings depending on context, in this context it deals with protection and maintanence.

From my limited understanding (and from what I've heard first hand from students of Islamic knowledge) this can best be understood in terms of relative roles of women and men in society and the marriage. Men are given the duty of maintaining protecting etc their wives, in the home with a righteous exemplary lifestyle and guidance then economically by taking, singlehandedly, the burden of earning on their shoulders, for the benefit of their family; this leaves the wife to attend to the most honored position/duty in regards the family (from an Islamic perspective) and this is the raising, instructing and enculturating of the next generation, their children.

Men and women think, feel, behave differently than each other BY NATURE, this is the way we were created, so each memeber of the family, community, society, has a diferent set of duties and rights depending on their abilty and nature.

BTW Look into the nature of heterosexuality and the false origins of feminist ideology, a somewhat useful site (in it's refutation of feminism) is www.savethemales.ca ...however. why dwel on this, when you could actually study Islam with an open mind (rather than just cutting and pasting what you think could divert people from the Straight Path) ...Allaah (God) knows best, and succes is from Him Alone...

peace

PS-If your intention is to prove that Islam degrades women consider this translation of the meaning of an authentic hadith (famous also) :

A man came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and asked : "Who deserves my best companionship (treatment)? "He (the Prophet peace be upon him) replied : "Your mother." "Then who? " the man asked. Again the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Your mother." "Then who?" the man asked. "Your mother." the Prophet peace be upon him replied a third time. The man asked again "Then who?" and to this the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Your father and after that those closest to you (in terms of relation)."

Women have a lofty, treasured, beloved and precious position in Islam. Allaah Alone grants success.

[BoyntonStu]

iscovedel,

Please explain this verse:

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which
God has gifted the one above the other. 4:38"

stU

[iscovedel]

B. STu

please read my previous posting ...

peace

Women have a lofty, treasured, beloved and precious position in Islam.

Then why the burkah (sp?)
And why are girls only now receiving an education in Afghanistan and Iraq after the islamic regimes have been replaced by fledgling democracies?

Mavis Leno speaks up for Afghan women

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2001-09-27-mavis-leno.htm

Leno is chair of the Feminist Majority's Campaign to Stop Gender Apartheid in Afghanistan. Backed by husband Jay Leno, she has worked for years to aid women suffering under the extremist Taliban regime. With school and work forbidden, women are unable to leave home unless accompanied by a man, and are beaten, even killed, for infractions of Taliban law.

"It's hideous," Mavis Leno said Wednesday by phone from L.A. of the Sept. 11 events and their aftermath. "On top of what's happened to America, I have such a weight on my heart because working with these women, I've come to love them very much."

*

[iscovedel]

[quote=Heidi Guedel]Then why the burkah (sp?)
And why are girls only now receiving an education in Afghanistan and Iraq after the islamic regimes have been replaced by fledgling democracies?


the purpose of a woman (or man) in their life is : Knowing God and serving God. This is the main goal and all others are secondary, but also important.

(Note; Iraaq wasn't in any sense an islaamic regime, and the Taaliban were far from the true, accepted practice of Islaam, that's only for starters. the political side is so full of dis-info, avoid the mainstream media like plague: it's all propaganda)

More important than this side issue of gender relations, which is another false divider, a wedge used to divide humanity, a mean of driving us into easliy manipulatable herds (along with class, race, nationality, age, etc) the real issues (as muslims would see it) are WHO IS GOD? and WHY AM I HERE? and then WHAT SHOULD I DO? and WHAT WILL HAPPEN AFTER WE DIE? the old simple questions that haunted us since we were kids. Don't think it's naive to still ask them.

Also, the current practice of most muslims is not indicative of the teachings of the actual way of life. Most muslims are only marginally following Islam and this is a major reason for our downfall.

There are so many questions your questions bring up; what is the purpose of "education"? what is an education, really? then what is the purpose of an ecucation islamically and from a western secular perspective? then, where are you getting your information, how does the bias of this info and/or your "education" affect your outlook/prejudices? how can you know the whole picture without seeing both sides? How can you see both sides without knowing what muslims actually believe? If you want to know about Islam don't ask FOX News, seek out the authentic sources.

www.salafipublications.com

The wives of many of my friends wholeheartedly EMBRACE the veil, they proudly and independently CHOOSE to wear the veil. They value themselves more than to be pried on by every lecherous eye of the public. They value themsleves as FAR more than sexual , objectified animals, they know they are only degraded by seeking acceptance though exposing their bodies to complete strangers.

Allah Knows Best

Peace

PS- sorry the length of the posting but to add: the opposite could be asked in regards the exploitation of women as sexual objects: why the bikini if women are so valued? where is the honor in being valued for something so superficial and ONLY for that? If you got it flaunt it but if you don't your forgotten. Everything is comerce and your body has been commodified, your value is relative to your physical appeal, as long as that lasts. Your emotional and spiritual insecurity is good for the economy, keep buying what makes you feel valuable. Women are being exploited by their in-born desire for attention and used to control and distract the other half of society. Our culture, whats left of it, is being ruthlessly engineered for commercial benefit, ultimately for power's sake: those who would enlsave us would rather have us willingly sell ourselves. Their persuasion appeals to our lowest, base desires and uses these to ensnare us. Islam offers solutions on so many levels, whether familial, societal, ecomonic (with strict and logical rulings governing transactions, usury free in the strictist sense) etc...anyway, long posting but open minded research will pay off, God-willing. peace

There are so many questions your questions bring up; what is the purpose of "education"? what is an education, really?

An education is an opportunity to learn and to become competent in basic skills like reading, writing, science and mathematics. Social studies are also quite important, as is the study of comparative religions, IMHO. It should be an opportunity equally available to both genders.

then what is the purpose of an ecucation islamically and from a western secular perspective?

I am not Islamic, so I cannot presume to answer your first question, but from a Western Secular perspective I believe that education is a means of becoming competent, skilled and informed so as to be able to function in society and become capable of earning a living and supporting oneself if desired. This is why I believe that denying education to women keeps women dependant upon men, who are able to be educated. This is unfair.

then, where are you getting your information, how does the bias of this info and/or your "education" affect your outlook/prejudices?

I’m sure all info to which I am exposed is infused with bias to some degree. This is only human…it is inescapable. But I've heard this information about girls being denied education in islamic nations from a variety of sources.

how can you know the whole picture without seeing both sides? How can you see both sides without knowing what muslims actually believe?

I doubt if anything you could tell me about Islam and its beliefs would ever convince me that it is OK to deny an education to female children.

If you want to know about Islam don't ask FOX News, seek out the authentic sources.

Well... I'm glad we have you. Are you authentic? I have listened to various sources, and heard very contradictory things. Islam is supposedly a religion of peace… but terrorist activities and genocide and religious wars and kidnappings and beheadings certainly seem to contradict that. Same with Christianity… crusades and inquisitions and witch burnings and religious wars certainly contradict the idea of a religion of love and peace. I keep getting the excuse: “but THOSE weren’t really Christians, or THOSE weren’t really Muslims because true members of “our” faith wouldn’t really do those things. Funny thing though – THEY all professed to be Christians or Muslims (or whatever), whether you think they were living up to their faiths or not. I don’t believe that any holy book advocating violence against “others” (“infidels”) or blood sacrifice rituals or the death of an innocent man as atonement for the sins of others could have been inspired by the creator of this universe – whether you call that creator “Allah” or “Jehovah” or “YHWH” or anything else. That is my own opinion… and I do share it with others… some of which are many of the Founding Fathers of The United States of America… (contrary to the claims of the “religious right” in this country).

PS- sorry the length of the posting but to add: the opposite could be asked in regards the exploitation of women as sexual objects:

The difference is that exploitation of women as sexual objects is not FORCED upon the women in America... nor is it denied them. I and other western women have a choice. We do not have to wear a tent with eye holes in it in order to walk down the street. We are not expected to mutilate our genitalia in such a way that sexual pleasure becomes impossible in order to get married. We are not uneducated and therefore unable to support ourselves so that there is little alternative for us except marriage.

why the bikini if women are so valued? where is the honor in being valued for something so superficial and ONLY for that? If you got it flaunt it but if you don't your forgotten. Everything is comerce and your body has been commodified, your value is relative to your physical appeal, as long as that lasts.

That approach to life and material success is a choice. I chose to become a professional artist and authoress… not to parade around scantily clad. If other women choose to do that, it is their privilege. Men, too. The beauty industry in this country applies to men as well. One may find it superficial, but one does not have to participate, nor is one prevented from participating. This is known as FREEDOM.

Your emotional and spiritual insecurity is good for the economy, keep buying what makes you feel valuable. Women are being exploited by their in-born desire for attention and used to control and distract the other half of society.

That is an all encompassing chauvinistic description of women. I am not a distraction. I am an individual human being gifted with certain talents and abilities who would not want my life choices to be limited to nothing but marriage... wherein I could not even experience sexual pleasure because my genitalia would have been mutilated (so called female circumcision, in which the clitoris is sliced off to prevent the woman from feeling any pleasure during sexuality). BTW… mutilating our bodies shows disrespect for our creator, IMHO. We are normally born with the capacity to experience sexual pleasure, and deliberately mutilating little girls in order to prevent that seems absolutely depraved to me. I am thankful that in this life I was not born a girl in any Muslim country, and that I do not have to exist inside a dark tent looking out through eye-holes. I do not choose to parade around in a bikini, or flaunt my body… but that is my own choice. Most of the time I wear jeans and a T-shirt. 

Peace to you too.