The Historical Jesus?

[BoyntonStu]

Do not fall into the subtle trap set by Christian clergy or missionaries when they want to discuss Jesus. They love to start questioning you right off with; “Do you know Jesus?” For you to answer this ridiculous question requires that you accept their premise ¯ that Jesus actually lived. REJECT that premise right at the start, for it is false!

Instead, demand that the Christian “prove that Jesus ever existed!” Then follow-up with; ”if he did exist, prove that he was more than a simple man.”

If they cannot prove that he existed AND with super human powers, then you have no reason to discuss Christianity any farther. Don’t ask them – instead tell them: The Ancient Historians Are Silent About Jesus! John F. Remsburg (1848-1919) wrote 1 that at least 41 writers/historians who lived during the time or within a century after the time that Jesus is supposed to have lived were silent about Jesus, his disciples, crucifixion or resurrection. 2

R. Joseph Hoffman, a senior research fellow of Westminster College, maintained that “the gospels are simply ‘reinforcing tales’ written after a specific doctrine about Jesus had been formulated.” Hoffman demonstrated 3 that "There was no collaborative literature about Jesus outside the gospels."

Although there is a large amount of written material from the 0-100 period there is only one reference to Jesus the Christ and that is in the writings of the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37- 101). Historians have concluded this reference to be a forgery as it only occurs in later translations of the work and the wording is inconsistent with the original. This is surprising as Josephus mentions large numbers of minor historical figures. His failure to mention Jesus suggests either that he did not exist or alternately he was not thought important. In a similar way there is no mention of events such as the massacre of the innocents or the natural events which were have meant to have taken place at the crucifixion. Even if one accepts this forged insert, Jesus is only mentioned as an isolated passing remark. Josephus silence of Jesus’ miracles, crucifixion or resurrections is deafening.

Aside from FORGED passages there isn't ANY mention of Jesus the Christ anywhere in any non-Christian work in this world ¯ none at all. There is NOTHING about Jesus’ life or the events in which he was supposedly involved. No miracles, no crucifixion, no resurrection, no virgin birth, no wise men, no Herod’s slaughter of innocent babies and on and on and on. NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, NIL!

Jesus is a fictitious character set in a fictitious tale – the New Testament. It is no different that the “adventurers of Harry Potter,” or the “Memoirs of the Tooth Fairy.”

[weishaupt1776]

Here's the link Stu copy pasted from
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/doyouknowjesus.html

Now, I can honestly attribute a dichotomy the initials B.S. to those of his screen name, unless that is his web site.

If not, then Stu, did you plagiarize your papers back when you were a strapping young buck?

The formatting on the web site you plagiarized is much more asthetically pleasing than just a little post rectangle on a forum.

Why didn't you give these guys credit, where credit is due to this brilliant research you have "unearthed".

This goes to show that you don't really study much, you just meander around the web to atheist websites and copy/paste & try to really "hammer those Christian bastards", don't you?

Since you have started this off on the foot of debating on copy pasted stuff & try to get us to argue the merits< I will now post a counterlink to a website regarding Remborn because this webpage makes for a better read rather than merely copy paste into a thread box & pass it off as brilliant scholarship
http://www.tektonics.org/qt/remsberg01.html

There you go, homey. Debunk that. A counter link to Remborn has been presented.

Post another link which debunks that link &/or validates Remborns research.

You're starting to demonstrate weakness. Your flailing Stu. Grasping at straws to really "show us bastards something, Huh?"

Satan's got you on a long convoluted path to try an debunk the Bible, which you will never be able to do. This is a vain mission, Stu.

Are you going to spend your precious time surfing the web for links which appeal to your senses till the day you die? Are you that dedicated?

I had asked you in another post to the effect of:
"If God was to judge you by the standard of perfect obedience to the Ten Commandments & the destiny for perfect obedience to such was eternal life with God; but the sentence for guilt of having have broken them was eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, where would you go?"

[BoyntonStu]

Virgin births a dime a dozen

________________________________________
most pagan gods were virgin births, most died to fulfill some earthly need and were resurrected.

All very, very pagan.

Some were born on December 25. Some died on crosses. It boggles the mind that modern man (let alone 2 billion of them) buy Christianity.

You have Mithra (very close indeed to Christianity), Attis, Dionysius and on and on.

Mithra had a virgin birth on December 25 in a cave -- wise men brought gifts. He had 12 companions or disciples who he taught and he performed miracles. And get this: he was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.

Early Christians spent a lot of time explaining why Mithra was different from Jesus! Here is a quote from Justin Martyr First Apology, lxvi

Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done.

Funny thing is that Mithraism pre-dated Christianity but the Christians said they Mithraites were ripping THEM off! Too funny.

Zoroaster also had a virgin mommy via “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason (can you say "holy ghost"?). He started his ministry in his 30s and was tempted by the devil in the desert. Any of this sound vaguely familiar? And for our logos friends (you know: in the beginning was the word and the word was made flesh) Zoroaster was the word made flesh.

Dionysius, aka Bachus, was also born on December 25 (popular day). He rose from the dead on March 25. Want a picture of Dionysius? (It is a man on a cross).

[BoyntonStu]

"If God was to judge you by the standard of perfect obedience to the Ten Commandments & the destiny for perfect obedience to such was eternal life with God; but the sentence for guilt of having have broken them was eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, where would you go?"

I'll take the Lake of Fire after I die. I will first enjoy this life to the fullest.


BoyntonStu

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

Virgin births a dime a dozen

________________________________________
most pagan gods were virgin births, most died to fulfill some earthly need and were resurrected.

All very, very pagan.

Some were born on December 25. Some died on crosses. It boggles the mind that modern man (let alone 2 billion of them) buy Christianity.

You have Mithra (very close indeed to Christianity), Attis, Dionysius and on and on.

Mithra had a virgin birth on December 25 in a cave -- wise men brought gifts. He had 12 companions or disciples who he taught and he performed miracles. And get this: he was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.

Early Christians spent a lot of time explaining why Mithra was different from Jesus! Here is a quote from Justin Martyr First Apology, lxvi

Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done.

Funny thing is that Mithraism pre-dated Christianity but the Christians said they Mithraites were ripping THEM off! Too funny.

The December 25 is pagan & not suggested Biblically. It is a creation of UN-biblical Roman Catholicism. Although there are people who incorrectly observe Dec 25 as such, does not change the fact that the Bible DOES NOT suggest such a thing.

Also, please provide the original titles of the books that those beliefs came from & their authors OTHER THAN JUST what some 18th century scholar said

Here's something on mighty mithrian majic & christianity.
http://tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html

You have the burdedn of showing how the ORIGINAL Iranian Mithra connects to the later Roman Mithra.
You can't. The Roman Mithrainism has not been connected to that ancient Iranian belief yet. They just adopted some names & customs

You have to show that christians borrowed anything OTHER THAN JUST artwork. Not only that, but pre-3rd or 4th century at that.
Please provide rebuttal evidence to that above link which disproves that there is a Mithraic-Christian connection

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

Zoroaster also had a virgin mommy via “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason (can you say "holy ghost"?). He started his ministry in his 30s and was tempted by the devil in the desert. Any of this sound vaguely familiar? And for our logos friends (you know: in the beginning was the word and the word was made flesh) Zoroaster was the word made flesh.

Dionysius, aka Bachus, was also born on December 25 (popular day). He rose from the dead on March 25. Want a picture of Dionysius? (It is a man on a cross).

You have the burden of providing citations from the source titles from which these came. Who originally wrtote them & what was the name of the book(s) from which they came.
Please provide the citations, stu. Until then you are providing un-documented "rebuttal" "evidence"

Stu, concerning the possibility that you could be destined for eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire;
Does that concern you?

[BoyntonStu]

[\


Stu, concerning the possibility that you could be destined for eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire;

Does that concern you?[/b][/quote]

What factually is the Lake of Fire? Where is the Lake of Fire? Can we use the fuel to power our cars to help with the energy crunch? Or are you just blowing hot air?

I look forward to seeing it, without the tiniest bit of fear in my heart.

Boyntonstu

[weishaupt1776]

Okay, let's say that there's no Lake of Fire, I'll give you that one.

Would the possibility that you could be destined to endure eternal conscious torment concern you?

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

Okay, let's say that there's no Lake of Fire, I'll give you that one.

Would the possibility that you could be destined to endure eternal conscious torment concern you?

No Lake of Fire! Gee! I wanted to see it after visiting Yellowstone's 'Old Faithful".

Would the possibility that you could be destined to endure eternal conscious torment concern you?

Eternal conscious torment? By who or what? What factually are you stating in regards to being destined?

I live my life joyfully, grateful for the love in my life, and without fear. You?


Boyntonstu

[weishaupt1776]

Same here. Just concerned.

Let's just say hypothetically then, If there is such a destiny & place of eternal conscious torment ; you would be willing to suffer that sentence due to god having declaring you guilty of being a sinner according to His standard?

[chuckhs12]

I have read through this thread and find it very interesting. The part that puzzles me the most is "Why do conscious humanbeings expend so much energy to attack one another?".

This thread resembles what goes on everyday at varying degrees. From road rage to wars to arguments between spouses you see on cops or Jerry Springer.

What is stated in the "New Testament about Jesus Christ being Fact or Fiction?" is up to the "Conscious Being" doing the reading. That is thier choice! No matter whether you are a slave or soveriegn. That is a natural right, a God given right, an unalienable rights of choice.

Conscious beings will make thier own decisions and travel thier own paths. The more you try to push your doctrine down thier throats, the more they will resent you for it.

If you become offended by my statements, mad, or in any other fashion bent out of shape. That is your choice to make.

May you always find the peace you are searching for!