Why not take the red pill of religion too?

#1 04-22-2004, 11:43 PM

I have seen over the past 4 years of dissillusionment that the church as we know it of today has taken the same path that the rest of the world has taken. They are not following the Word, and they are not accomplishing the directives that God set forth.

This is part of the problem with why the church is neck deep in fake debt, and bound up. The enemy has them right where he wants them.

We don't go to church. We don't believe in it, since the bible never tells us to go to church. IT calls us the church.

Make your decision today to BE the church instead of going to it.

I get a lot of confirmation on this site:

www.watchman.net

(No one will tell me how to post a URL or bold things, or insert a pic)

Check it out, and fellowship with other likeminded people in your home or theirs, just like the early church did.

HB

#2 04-23-2004, 03:02 AM

http://watchman.net/

Just right-click the address, then paste it here.

Randy

LUKE2447 · #3 05-19-2004, 01:36 PM

True the BODY is the church not a building.& I choose to be with and congregate with like minded individuals as I am PART not the whole body. I choose to not forsake the assembling of the saints!& I choose to be built up with other members as I need teaching and guidance and exhortation to me and from me to other brothers and sisters!& Everyone needs guidance in mentoring by the Spirit but the ministry of the church(body) is to help each other and minister to each other.& THe NT is always addressing groups of believers therefore there is NOTHING wrong with going to Church or better yet a "meeting of the body".& Yes politics do run in groups known as churches and wrong things are done in the name of fellowship with such groups but that does not mean a "Church" body of believers which congregate& weekly&is wrong.& Live on&a island without the body and you die!

We need each other!

#4 05-19-2004, 02:55 PM

Group: Two or more.

If your wife (or any other person) is part of that body, then you are succeeding in assembling together as directed in the bible.

You are confusing the meaning of church as the bible presents it.

The church is the body, not an institution or building, or a 501(c)(3).

Funny thing, John lived on the Isle of patmos, and rather than die, he had a great revelation. Christ himself communed with him.

We need each other is a true statement. We need First (insert your demonization, I mean denomination here) church is a False statement according to the bible.

At the very least, 80% of what goes on in American churches is unscriptural.

There is something very wrong with deceiving yourself into thinking that meeting with a group that is in error is a help to you. It's called co-dependency.

Most pastors have become whores of political correctness. I have had face to face relationships with at least 25 pastors, and I have yet to see one who isn't a PC whore.

From Dictionary.com:

whore n.
3. A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

LUKE2447 · #5 05-19-2004, 03:23 PM

HenryI understand your point!& The thing is though you only bring up John as he was exhiled there!& The bible shows clearly that the individual believer fellowshiped with more than his household!& The whole point that Paul talks about in his letters to the Corinthians is when you "come togethor"& He gives regulation of many aspects and talks about ministries in the BODY. The most important thing is lean not unto thine own understanding and in all thy ways acknowledge him and he will direct thy paths. That does not exclude ministry with "others" outside&your family or household to other believers.& Yes&you should be able to survive with&ONLY your relationship with God and with nobody else.& The point still remains that the body is SUPPOSED to congregate with each other and WORSHIP with each other in song and testimony etc...& Also I said that the Church is the Body!& I find it amazing how people want to&throw out the baby with the bath water when people don't like to subject to anyone with spiritual authority or have had bad experience with other "church bodies!"& They go do this same thing and pretty much become spiritual hermits!Henry not saying that is you but alot of times that is the case.& I don't like alot of organized religion! The still does not make the case when the example all through out the NT are to different bodies of believers known as "the church (body) in...." The Book of Acts shows organized or grouping of believers into bodies!& There is nothing wrong with it!

LUKE2447 · #6 05-19-2004, 03:32 PM

Henry I can find and point to alot of things churches teach today that are nowhere close to what the Bible teaches.& That is from my point of view! We ALL can claim that from a point of view that we believe something is wrong!& I go to a a specific church that I enjoy does that mean I agree with everything???& NO! I choose to teach my family as I feel God leads.& I have been blessed greatly by my fellowship their and have grown greatly in God!&

#7 05-19-2004, 03:37 PM

You didn't bring up anyone, and you were the one who used the "island" analogy.

The bible also shows that they met house to house, not in the same building all the time.

Coming together to them was an every day occurence. They sold everything they had and gave it into one purse, and it was redistributed as every man had need. Where is ANY of that being done today?

Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matthew 18:20

Now, What verse supports your position? I want to read it for myself. Jesus clearly said two or three. This excludes my wife how? I fail to see support for your position.

To me, it would be impossible to become a spiritual hermit. Surrender to God means action, not inaction. IT does not, however mean that you have to go to a "church" to be spiritually healthy or in the will of God. If I am wrong, I invite spiritual rebuke via the scripture that establishes my error.

I believe in bodies of believers assembling. I just don't believe in going "to church." I believe in BEING the church.

In Christ's liberty, (Not pastor Bob's)

HB

LUKE2447 · #8 05-20-2004, 12:00 AM

I have not disagreed with you I was talking in general. Yes I agree that the reference to& when two or three are gathered in& his name.....& That is gathering togethor.& My point is that many when they do argue against going to a group of believers they usually are spiritual hermits and they use it as an excuse to not fellowship etc... I again am not saying you but general when this is brought up. The Bible also says they went to the temple to worship it was not just the houses to worship etc... I agree with the points you made in reference to the Book of Acts about the distribution of food as many did not see the point in keeping anything as they thought the coming of Christ was near per the reference to Christs discussion of the Temple being&destroyed etc.. in Matt&24 as in "this generation shall not pass." Also concerning your coming togethor in two or three like it makes a dagger point in which I am not disagreeing.& That has nothing to do with in general the gathering of believers as sometype of mandate.& I also believe that he is there when I pray daily& and seek him.& I&am not neglected from him his communion if I don't have two or three to pray with me.The reference is to the simple understanding of the power of communion and agreement in the reference to "two or three witnesses" as precedent in scripture.& I agree with you on most of what you said but the total negative tone toward large assemblies of believers does not do justice to most churches I know in which I fellowship.& I know of some that are as you mentioned but I would never go to them.

"To me, it would be impossible to become a spiritual hermit. Surrender to God means action, not inaction. IT does not, however mean that you have to go to a "church" to be spiritually healthy or in the will of God. If I am wrong, I invite spiritual rebuke via the scripture that establishes my error."

I would agree if people did that but most don't and alot just use it as an excuse.& I see alot that do this and within no time have fallen into all types of sin and totaly fallen away instead of having fellow brothers and people to help them keep focused on the most important thing and that is Christ Jesus.

"I believe in bodies of believers assembling. I just don't believe in going "to church." I believe in BEING the church."


I understand but do you&gather with other believers &regularly?The thing about ONE purse show unity among many!!!! The point&of organization&with each other locally as groups and being responsible to others in that assembly and being in constant ministry with others "per Acts" Notice they gave the money away to someone else and it was redistributed among everyone that shows group organization other than me and my wife thou it could if the local setting was home missions work or starting a new work somewhere!& I agree with alot of what you said but not with the harshness that seemed to make "Local Assemblies" or churches out to be all bad.

&

I don't agree with alot of doctrine taught by most churches!& So to me I agree with alot of what you say!&

#9 05-20-2004, 09:22 AM

Re your first paragraph, I do have a negative tone towards large assemblies. They are playgrounds for adults, and moneymakers for pastors, who then squander what they have received.

Let me say this. My tone is not towards you, just the argument. I'd sit down and share a beer with you any time and fellowship in Christ's presence.

OK, Back to the issues:

I see alot that do this and within no time have fallen into all types of sin and totaly fallen away instead of having fellow brothers and people to help them keep focused on the most important thing and that is Christ Jesus.

My point exactly. Except you say that lack of connection with the local institution is the cause, and I say that connection with the local institution is the cause.

There are a lot of "Christians" that go to church on Sunday, and forget about it on Monday morning. Church didn't help them stay focused one bit. The reason why is that they have no relationship with Christ. Their relationship is with the institution (501(c)(3)).

I understand but do you gather with other believers regularly?

Every day. Like I said, my wife is a believer as well, and we commune every day with Him. We further meet with other believers from time to time. Nowhere in the bible do you have access to a spiritual yardstick that says "if one meets 3x a week with other believers, they are in My will." There simply is no schedule (much to many believers sorrow, especially when they try to argue with me).

The thing about ONE purse show unity among many!!!!

I see that it shows accountability, which is non-existent today. Regardless of what we say it shows, it doesn't happen today. If it did, the pastors would be a LOT richer, and there would be more bankruptcy, and poverty.

The point of organization with each other locally as groups and being responsible to others in that assembly and being in constant ministry with others "per Acts"

Where in Acts does it say to be in constant ministry with others? Where does it say to be responsible to others? Where does it say to organize with each other?

Notice they gave the money away to someone else and it was redistributed among everyone that shows group organization other than me and my wife thou it could if the local setting was home missions work or starting a new work somewhere!

They didn't give the money away to just someone else. They gave it to apostles. There are no apostles alive today. Today's churches (institutions) also do NOT redistribute to every man as they have need. Oh yeah, they rake it in, but it's all in the bank or in the building. I bet God is really impressed at what's happening with the whole scam.

My wife and I can fulfill the whole church model. We can meet, worship, give, and lead others to Christ. What part of this is wrong?

I believe churches are a get-rich-quick scheme for pastors. There will be a lot of pastors that burn in hell.

#10 05-27-2004, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryBowman

I believe churches are a get-rich-quick scheme for pastors. There will be a lot of pastors that burn in hell.

Get a big "heard that I did" from me, Mr. Bowman.

Churches are more interested in their tax-exempt status than ever preaching anything other than the same ol' sermons, over and over....

Oh. Do this when you time: Go to internal revenue manual on-line. Look for "frivilous filers." Only two entities are discussed under the subject. One is "trusts." Guess what the other is. Right. Churches.

Amazing.....

Randy