Judaism vs Zionism

[rottweiler]

There is a vile lie, which stalks the Jewish people across the globe. It is a lie so heinous, so far from the truth, that it can only gain popularity due to the complicity of powerful forces in the "mainstream" media and educational establishment.

It is a lie which has brought many innocent people untold suffering and if unchecked has the potential to create extraordinary tragedy in the future.
It is the lie that declares that Judaism and Zionism are identical.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism..._v_zionism.cfm

Originally Posted by rottweiler

There is a vile lie, which stalks the Jewish people across the globe. It is a lie so heinous, so far from the truth, that it can only gain popularity due to the complicity of powerful forces in the "mainstream" media and educational establishment.

It is a lie which has brought many innocent people untold suffering and if unchecked has the potential to create extraordinary tragedy in the future.
It is the lie that declares that Judaism and Zionism are identical.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism..._v_zionism.cfm

Just about a week ago, FOX News Channel showed an interview with an obviously Orthodox Rabbi - he may have been Hassidic (did I spell that right?) because he wore the black coat and hat, and he had long sidelocks and a beard. This Rabbi declared that it is not correct for the Jewish state - Israel - to exist. This Rabbi insisted that the Jewish people are supposed to live throughout the world and live among other peoples of the world, rather than try to claim this piece of ground and cause un-holy wars about it. This Rabbi claimed that if Israel was evacuated and the land returned to the Muslims, these wars would cease. I was impressed that FOX dared to present this Rabbi's opinion. He was American, BTW - no foreign accent.

But I also must say that claiming that Zionism is not Jewish is like the Catholics claiming that the Protestants are not true Christians, and the Protestants claiming that the Catholics are not true Christians. Just more squabbling over the meaning of their particular interpretations of their own pet scriptures and creating more disagreement and more hate and more conflict and more religiously motivated war and death.

God save us from religion!!!

[David Merrill]

I just now posted on Jewish Mel Gibson:

There are a lot of definitions made by man but the definition for Jew of the Holy Bible is defined clearly by the Holy Bible.

The confusion about the right to exist as a Jewish Nation (State of Israel) is drawn from the Pauline Heresy. Paul knew full well that Jesus survived the Crucifixion. Being from Tarsus, Celicia and being an early METRO agent in model (City of Babylon by declaring the city instead of the state for citizenship, Paul knew that pagan culture of Asia Minor (Turkey) would lap up a rumor of Resurrection (New Year Rebirth) like kittens with milk. In fact, it worked out too well.

Paul eventually had the Jews starving themselves in an assassination pact.

Basically nowhere in the Hebrew writings (whether canonized or not) is there any indication that the Messiah of God will be capable of any supernatural acts. Aside from reviving Lazarus from death, which did not happen anyway, Jesus did nothing any capable hypnotist cannot do today or throughout history. Ergo the origin of the Pauline Heresy that has plagued the Jews about the Diaspora.

Because of Paul's supernatural interpretation of Jesus' surviving the Cross, Paul has equated the Messiah of the Old Covenant to be somewhat equated with God whereas the Messiah is nothing more than a man according to the Old Covenant. This is heresy. Ergo rejected by anyone with Rules of Evidence, especially the Jews who do not like heresy (Ten Commandments).

This leads to the confusion about whether or not Jews are intended at this time, post Advent of the Messiah ben Joseph, to be in Diaspora. Of course I believe Jesus the man was the Messiah in form Messiah ben Joseph and that the prophecies are being fulfilled properly and accurately according to the numbers in the Book of Daniel.

http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/sui...elCalendar.jpg
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/sui...anielBooks.jpg
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Scythian.jpg
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Khazar.jpg

Jesus even says at Matthew 24:15 to build a timeline off these numbers:

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately [esoteric*], saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Therefore there is dispute among the Jews, who do not believe Jesus is the Messiah at all, and those believing the same who became impatient (Immentizing the Christian Eschaton) and inadvertently put a confirmation of the prophecies coming to fulfillment into place for the Christians too by forming the State of Israel.

This is why Justice Brandeis, the same installer of Erie Doctrine here in the US donated heavily to David ben Gurion at the same time to start settling Jews in the Negev Desert - prior to becoming the the first Prime Minister of the State of Israel. But then it is always interesting to see how the advanced-resonance plays out in reality.


Regards,

David Merrill.


* Without understanding this secret encrypted by early Masonic-King James in 1611, try making sense of this passage:

Mar 4:10 And when he was alone [again esoteric], they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Interesting concepts, David.

I recently met an ex-reverend who postulates that Jesus survived the cross. His theory is that the sponge that was offered to give Jesus moisture by mouth contained hissop - a common herb known to the Hebrews - and that it may have deliberately caused unconsciousness, enabling Jesus' followers to receive his body and transport it to Joseph's tomb where it could be revived. A reasonably believable story... but who knows?

Your allegation that the anticipated messiah was NOT expected by the Jewish people to be divine or capable of supernatural acts is interesting and also believable - believable in the sense that I am always more tempted to believe that people are not silly enough to expect the impossible.

David Merrill wrote:

Therefore there is dispute among the Jews, who do not believe Jesus is the Messiah at all, and those believing the same who became impatient (Immentizing the Christian Eschaton) and inadvertently put a confirmation of the prophecies coming to fulfillment into place for the Christians too by forming the State of Israel.

This is why Justice Brandeis, the same installer of Erie Doctrine here in the US donated heavily to David ben Gurion at the same time to start settling Jews in the Negev Desert - prior to becoming the the first Prime Minister of the State of Israel. But then it is always interesting to see how the advanced-resonance plays out in reality.

The religious beliefs themselves become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The religions based upon the God of Abraham all expect Armegeddon, and so they behave in such a way as to bring it about themselves! Fundy's of all stripes may just kill us all and destroy the world and everything innocent in it because they all believe in and expect Armegeddon.

See:

The Mind of the Bible Believer, by Edmond D. Cohen

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...e=UTF8&s=books

_______

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by Heidi Guedel

Interesting concepts, David.

I recently met an ex-reverend who postulates that Jesus survived the cross. His theory is that the sponge that was offered to give Jesus moisture by mouth contained hissop - a common herb known to the Hebrews - and that it may have deliberately caused unconsciousness, enabling Jesus' followers to receive his body and transport it to Joseph's tomb where it could be revived. A reasonably believable story... but who knows?

Your allegation that the anticipated messiah was NOT expected by the Jewish people to be divine or capable of supernatural acts is interesting and also believable - believable in the sense that I am always more tempted to believe that people are not silly enough to expect the impossible.

Having the faith of Jesus Christ, in the God of Israel, I tend to see it as the God of Abraham need not go supernatural, especially when the supernatural is not in the (original Old Covenant) Scriptures.

Originally Posted by Heidi Guedel

David Merrill wrote:


The religious beliefs themselves become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The religions based upon the God of Abraham all expect Armegeddon, and so they behave in such a way as to bring it about themselves! Fundy's of all stripes may just kill us all and destroy the world and everything innocent in it because they all believe in and expect Armegeddon.

See:

The Mind of the Bible Believer, by Edmond D. Cohen

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...e=UTF8&s=books

_______

That is why I drew out the timeline. That removes a lot of subjectivity. That is what Jesus would do; at least it is what Jesus told us to do when we get curious as to exactly when.


Regards,

David Merrill.

David posted:

That is why I drew out the timeline. That removes a lot of subjectivity. That is what Jesus would do; at least it is what Jesus told us to do when we get curious as to exactly when.

Regards,

David Merrill.

So you believe in Armegeddon and you expect it, too... and you also know from this timeline exactly when?

I believe that when people have so incorporated a belief into their psyche, they will behave in such a way as to help bring it about - self-fulfilling prophecy.

People had to know that creating the State of Israel by throwing out the Palestinians and occupying the land under the auspices of the USA and the UK would cause endless wars in the Middle East and ongoing bitterness against the USA and UK. The God of Abraham fundys are going to kill us all if they don't wake up from their self-imposed nightmare and evolve into compassionate human beings who can share the world with other people of various backgrounds without resorting to violence.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by Heidi Guedel

David posted:


So you believe in Armegeddon and you expect it, too... and you also know from this timeline exactly when?

I believe that when people have so incorporated a belief into their psyche, they will behave in such a way as to help bring it about - self-fulfilling prophecy.

People had to know that creating the State of Israel by throwing out the Palestinians and occupying the land under the auspices of the USA and the UK would cause endless wars in the Middle East and ongoing bitterness against the USA and UK. The God of Abraham fundys are going to kill us all if they don't wake up from their self-imposed nightmare and evolve into compassionate human beings who can share the world with other people of various backgrounds without resorting to violence.

No. I do not believe in Armageddon in the Rapture sense. For instance Rafael Matai in The Messiah Texts describes the Jewish perception of the Messiah to be identical to the Book of Revelation. The Book of Revelation is nothing new when viewed by its true origins. It is a restatement of Jewish thought at that time.

If you look at the Timeline provided you will see the dates have already passed. I was predicting violence on top of the Temple Mount on that very day for three weeks prior to Ariel Sharon going up there and stirring up Intefada.

So we are in Armageddon if you want to interprete things literally like many do. That would simply mean that Armageddon is a lot milder than predicted or that it will get worse before it is over.

The concept of self-fulfilling prophecy is thwarted by the Timeline in the Book of Daniel being ancient. The concept of cause and effect defies physics. One has to comprehend advanced-resonance inductive plasma physics, fields of plasma behind reality - or at least that e=mc2 is proof that matter is simply light travelling around in very small circles, ergo we only percieve light travels at 186K mi./sec. by viewing light from material eyes - then one can understand prior knowledge psychometrics of Biblical prophecy like Jesus did in Matthew 24:15.

We interact with reality so I cannot say the Christians do not contribute to an Armageddon scenario. I feel that since Y2K failed to bring it on many Christians have properly abandoned the Rapture Theory.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[rottweiler]

I am so glad you have a opinion. Can you give any kind of evidence to back it up?

Originally Posted by Heidi Guedel

Just about a week ago, FOX News Channel showed an interview with an obviously Orthodox Rabbi - he may have been Hassidic (did I spell that right?) because he wore the black coat and hat, and he had long sidelocks and a beard. This Rabbi declared that it is not correct for the Jewish state - Israel - to exist. This Rabbi insisted that the Jewish people are supposed to live throughout the world and live among other peoples of the world, rather than try to claim this piece of ground and cause un-holy wars about it. This Rabbi claimed that if Israel was evacuated and the land returned to the Muslims, these wars would cease. I was impressed that FOX dared to present this Rabbi's opinion. He was American, BTW - no foreign accent.

But I also must say that claiming that Zionism is not Jewish is like the Catholics claiming that the Protestants are not true Christians, and the Protestants claiming that the Catholics are not true Christians. Just more squabbling over the meaning of their particular interpretations of their own pet scriptures and creating more disagreement and more hate and more conflict and more religiously motivated war and death.

God save us from religion!!!

Originally Posted by rottweiler

I am so glad you have a opinion. Can you give any kind of evidence to back it up?

Would you please be more specific? With which opinion do you disagree, and what sort of evidence are you asking for?