The Authorised King James Bible?

[2tim215]

2 of 2

One other point of significance I believe is the Strong’s definitions of those two words “shake” and “spear”. Fortunately one of the things about the Bible is that there are many “checks and balances” which help us to be able to discern issues such as this one. Even if let’s say there was some semblance of truth regarding this “intended corruption” (which is what I would call what it is alleged that Bacon or others may have done), we have the original manuscripts which were written in Hebrew. These manuscripts go back as far as 1000 years B.C. so if there was a “supposed” error in translation or corruption we can always go back to the original manuscripts (which is why we have the Strong’s which is another one of those checks and balances which I referred to) and therefore anyone in 1600 or somewhat thereabouts who conceivably could have made any unwarranted changes would only be able to make it in the English translation and not in the original Hebrew. We could then always go back to the originals for verification. Even the illuminati could not have any influence over the ancient Hebrews as their meticulousness and accuracy in terms of the preservation of their ancient scriptures which is very well do***ented (this can be said to be the same for the New Testament as well but I do not want to go into that here as the relevant scriptures you have chosen are in fact from the Old Testament) and would have prevented this from happening. However, when we look at the two words “shake” and “spear” we can see from the Hebrew that these two words selected by the translators (starting with the Cloverdale up through King James) would be reasonable translations for the Hebrew based on the original Hebrew (the Hebrew ords “râ‛ash” and “chănıyth”).

Strong’s Hebrew definition for shake - H7493 רָעַשׁ râ‛ash raw-ash
A primitive root; to undulate (as the earth, the sky, etc.; also a field of grain), particularly through fear; specifically to spring (as a locust):—make afraid, (re-) move, quake, (make to) shake, (make to) tremble.
Strong’s Hebrew definition for spear - H2595 חֲנִית chănıyth khan-eeth'
From H2583; a lance (for thrusting, like pitching a tent):—javelin, spear.

In summary, this “theory” could be paralleled to the “Bible Code” hoax as it has just about as much credibility in my opinion. Somehow I recall David making mention of the “ridiculousness” of this in one of his previous posts regarding another thread where someone had posted about it. With the advent of the computer you can generate just about any linkage you want with just about anything you want to. The method of “linkage” would then become your code. Considering there are over 783,000 words and over 3 ½ million letters in the Bible, and through random number algorithms and the like, it is no surprise that one could come up with software which would display your grandmother’s name as well as the recipe for her apple pie including providing the “code” which was used to “make the connection” to it should one be willing to spend the time and resources necessary to accomplish this. Of course this would require someone to invest in the software and computing resources needed in order to perform such an operation. Perhaps those who developed this “theory” were able to convince someone with “deep pockets” of the importance of this undertaking in order to get the computer resources that they have been “longing” for many years. The book sales probably made it worthwhile for their investors and this kind of wasted resources has contributed to the success of the likes of movies such as the Da Vinci codes and others and I suspect that it will be likely that we will continue to see more of the same since it is the elements of the unknown as well as conspiracy theories which many turn to “titillate” their souls and which the Bible warns us of.

2 Tim 4:4(KJV) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
fables - G3454 μθος muthos moo'-thos
Perhaps from the same as G3453 (through the idea of tuition); a tale, that is, fiction (“myth”):—fable.
Furthermore Peter warns us as well:
2 Pet 1:16(KJV) For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
devised - G4679 σοφζω sophizō sof-id'-zo
From G4680; to render wise; in a sinister acceptation, to form “sophisms”, that is, comtimue plausible error:--cunningly devised, make wise
The truth of the Bible (New Testament specifically here) was corroborated many times over by people who were present during the time these events took place and is therefore not derived from “myths” or fictional accounts as some may falsely say.

One final point I think needs to be made here. Let’s forget for the moment all that I’ve said regarding the authenticity of the purported “conspiracy” regarding the Holy Bible. I am thoroughly convinced of God’s providence regarding not only the preservation of His word, but His ability to provide us with more than enough evidence to prove its validity. I say this not to proselytize; I say this as a result of many years of research and investigation of anti-biblical claims. Even if God were to “allow” someone to make some sort of a change to the translations (and keep in mind I maintain that He did not allow any changes to be made in the original languages), he would not allow any of those “changes” to change the actual verse meanings. For instance, using Deuteronomy 31:25 as an example
Deut 31:25(KJV) That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,

If for some reason, let’s say that some conspirator, in order to get a different sequence of words to match whatever “code” he was trying to suggest, somehow he was able to rearrange the sentence to be in the following way:

Deut 31:25 (conspired version): “The Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, was commanded by Moses, saying”
If you read both of these (the original and the corrupted) this just changes the wording (which I agree should not be done and anyone who would do so would be subject to God’s wrath) but (in this case) it would not really affect the actual meaning. However, in many of the corrupted versions of the Bible, the meaning is affected as in some cases text is added or removed, and words are changed which seriously impact the meaning. This is altogether different. When someone attempts to change the Word of God by altering the meaning in an attempt to deceive people into believing something different from what was truly meant by God, this is an unconscionable act and must be guarded against. The point that I’m making here is that if in the King James somehow God allowed any rearrangement of text, I do not believe that God would allow anything to be done that would have any impact on any of the major Christian doctrines that would include anything that God considers to be essential to our faith as He protects us from those who would try to mislead us. I believe that through His omnipotence He has the ability and the power to prevent this from happening. In addition, He gives us His Holy Spirit to help us to discern such matters.

Finally, quoting from the link which was supplied in an earlier thread regarding the King James with respect to the qualifications and integrity of the original translators: http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/kjvt1.html
Quote: "The men on the translation committee of the King James Bible were, without dispute, the most learned men of their day and vastly qualified for the job which they undertook. They were overall both academically qualified by their ***ulative knowledge and spiritually qualified by their exemplary lives… William John Bois was only five years old, when his father taught him to read Hebrew. By the time he was six, he could not only write the same, but in a fair and elegant character. At age fifteen, he was already a student at St John's College, Cambridge, where he was renowned for corresponding with his superiors in Greek." (Ref:E7) Quote is from William Grady.

Be blessed,

2tim215
2 Tim 2:15(KJV) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[georgealexander]

of a study Bible that would serve to offer an alternate view to Scofield's AKJV.

Thanks for all imput.

George Alexander

[outlaw]

Not much help, but consider this...

Can the word of God be copyrighted?

Jay Scott.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by georgealexander

of a study Bible that would serve to offer an alternate view to Scofield's AKJV.

Thanks for all imput.

George Alexander

It seems that about any other Bible is an alternate view? However I presume you mean that you like the AKJV by Scofield but want to expand in that sense?

Can the word of God be copyrighted?

Jay Scott.

Jay Scott, also in true name underestimates the power behind a simple question. I spent a lot of time pursuing uncopyrighted versions of the KJV. Especially in light of collations done by Gail Riplinger a decade ago. However one must understand that the 1611 KJV is a masonic encryption - early Freemasonry indeed but the Epistle Dedicatory leaves the version, a tribute to the new invention of the printing press, a monument to early Zionism. - note "... our Sion.." (attached)

There is no copyrighting the Word of God, even if one alters it and puts a copyrighting on it. That is to say that the Word, the debar, comes through the Holy Spirit of God. These are glimpses of an election, Melchizedek, King molech of Righteousness tzaddik.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Abraham paid tribute to a priest of no bloodline over 400 years before Moses formed the Levitical priesthood. Therefore there is a component of faith, that through faith one may rightly discern the Word of God from all counterfeits and alterations.

I wish to point out that Jesus tells us to calculate the end of the Age through the prophet Daniel:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

and that Jesus spoke to all but his inner apocalyptic mystery cult in parabola (encryption):

Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

So why all the secrecy? That's the fun part of the experience, when you discover that His secrets are being revealed to you in the most unexpected ways!

Interestingly I just checked out a couple books to help a couple days ago. (attached)


Regards,

David Merrill.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Abraham paid tribute to a priest of no bloodline over 400 years before Moses formed the Levitical priesthood. Therefore there is a component of faith, that through faith one may rightly discern the Word of God from all counterfeits and alterations.

Well said, David Merrill. You cannot copyright what cannot be copied.

Jay Scott.

[georgealexander]

Religious Significance

Scofield's correspondence Bible study course was the basis for his Reference Bible, an annotated, and widely circulated, study Bible first published in 1909 by Oxford University Press. Scofield's notes teach dispensationalism, a theology that was in part conceived in the early nineteenth century by the Anglo-Irish John Nelson Darby, who like Scofield had also been trained as a lawyer. Dispensationalism emphasizes the distinctions between the New Testament Church and ancient Israel of the Old Testament. Scofield believed that between creation and the final judgment there were seven distinct eras of God's dealing with man and that these eras were a framework around which the message of the Bible could be explained. It was largely through the influence of Scofield's notes that dispensationalism and premillennialism became influential among fundamentalist Christians in the United States.

---

A friend commenting on my reading the Scofield Concordance Study Bible made mention of Scofield's first family which did not bode well for the man's character.

I went to Wikipedia and the above paragraph led me to think there may be another study Bible [this is my first 'reading the Bible in a year] which would reflect SOMETHING other than 'dispensationalism and premillennialism'.

I have had no problem with the 1611 KJV, nor Scofield; but once when I pondered a footnote, I moved on saying to myself, 'that is Scofield, not this translation of Greek and Hebrew sacred texts. I have other supporting texts which I refer to from time to time.

Over the last 9 months I have read other views and learned the AKJV basic do***ents were from a 'flawed interpretation'.....I looked at my grandmother and my father's Bibles and they were both RKJV.

I have read the complete works of Shakespeare, now I am 'totally' reading the Bible......looking for an alternate view [I will not quit reading Scofield] for balance.

George Alexander

[Shoonra]

Translations can and are copyrighted.


The KJV is the subject of a perpetual "crown copyright" in Britain, essentially requiring royal consent to print or reprint the KJV. This has been upheld by the British courts a few times (the last time directly, about a century ago, the last time indirectly about 40 years ago in litigation over the "New English Bible"), but the legal grounds are unclear -- either because the Monarch is the head of the Church of England or else because the KJV is regarded as (originally) a govt project.

The primary reason for enforcing this crown copyright after all these years is that it supposedly assures careful and accurate printing and proofreading, and no fooling around with the text (-- the need for which was well demonstrated with the un-copyrighted 1880 English Revised Version).

This crown copyright was adhered to in America until the American Revolution -- until that time the colonists had to import all KJV Bibles from England, primarily from the Oxford and Cambridges printers. During the Revolution, as a revolutionary act, Congress authorized a printer to churn out an American edition of the KJV - and not pay the Brits anything for it. Since then American editions of the KJV are not copyrighted -- although any changes to the text, any commentary, etc., can be copyrighted. American editions of the KJV, therefore, tend to be cheaper -- but sometimes disappointing in their quality of printing.

But the crown copyright still persists throughout the UK. And you can be certain that a UK edition has been careful and conscientiously proofed and printed.


A copyright of a more normal type and duration can exist for any other translation or version of the Bible, even in the US. One reason that the Revised Standard Version was copyrighted was that its predecessor, the English Revised Version, was deliberately not copyrighted and was made public domain with the intention of spreading it as far and wide as possible; the result was many editions of the ERV that were carelessly done ... or even had (unflagged) alterations in the text.

[Shoonra]

.....the above paragraph led me to think there may be another study Bible...

There are countless study Bibles, but probably the second in popularity to Scofield, among KJV enthusiasts, is Dake's, which also seems to have its own spin on End Times.

My experience is that there is a decided limit on the usefulness of any one Study Bible (and some of them seem to have been worked up only as vehicles for some rather peculiar interpretation, frequently about things that haven't happened yet. I suggest that rather than collect different study Bibles -- with most of the bulk being the Bible text repeated in every copy -- perhaps you should consider getting other reference works, such as a Bible encyclopedia, dictionary, etc.

[Livefire]

There is also a work called 26 Translations.....it lays the versions out side by side....it can be quite interesting reading at times.

http://www.thewordbible.com/

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Bulletproof Monk

He was 46 when he created it, and to codify his secret identity as Shakespeare he changed the following passage from PSALM 46. You can easily verify this for yourself.

If you count 46 words from the beginning, you come to the word "Shake", previously "Quake", then if you count 46 words back from the end you of course come to the word "Spear", previously "shield".

The Geneva Bible, published before Bacon (or Shakespeare) was born, contains the same anamoly..