Have you heard of United 1st Financial?

[weishaupt1776]

calvinandhobbes, you have had 6 posts since your join date - all of which are pumping up a service provider

If you continue down this road and don't participate in other forums and discuss remedies in law, i will put in a recommendation for your termination from this board on the grounds that your position taken here is one of SPAM

[calvinandhobbes]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

calvinandhobbes, you have had 6 posts since your join date - all of which are pumping up a service provider

could you please let me know what service provider I am pumping? Not a single one, in fact. Quite the opposite, I am exposing a company's misleading, and possibly fraudulent, claims.

Spam? All the agents here are posting contact info, i haven't provided any. Why? Because I am not selling anything. Again, quite the opposite.

Very humorous that you are complaining about me when everyone else are the ones spamming.

[weishaupt1776]

Okay, it looked like your last post was running the numbers of the program, but I misread it

My bad

Looks like you are in opposition for good reason

Carry on, but that is not to say that you shouldn't participate in the other threads for reasons of expanding your areas of expertise

[calvinandhobbes]

thanks...we're cool.

[Logan]

calvinandhobbes,

I like your method. It requires a bit of conscious discipline, but it does make sense.

However, I would like to point out that an interest bearing bank account may have certain fees associated with it and any interest earned during the year would be certainly counted by the ghouls at the IRS as income.
The MMA and "home" equity line would be deductible.

I like your plan though. As long as you are doing something to leverage the banks profit then you are ahead of the game and certain deserving of the rewards. I am convinced however, that most average people cannot maintain any level of conscious discipline and the MMA basically holds your hand. That is my point.

Logan

[calvinandhobbes]

Originally Posted by Logan

calvinandhobbes,

I like your method. It requires a bit of conscious discipline, but it does make sense.

However, I would like to point out that an interest bearing bank account may have certain fees associated with it and any interest earned during the year would be certainly counted by the ghouls at the IRS as income.
The MMA and "home" equity line would be deductible.

I like your plan though. As long as you are doing something to leverage the banks profit then you are ahead of the game and certain deserving of the rewards. I am convinced however, that most average people cannot maintain any level of conscious discipline and the MMA basically holds your hand. That is my point.

Logan

it's not "my" approach. it's as much my approach as 1+1=2 is my revelation. it's just how interest works. yes, the bank interest is taxable, but the big bad IRS could take 50% of today's good savings rates and the MMA would still lose. That's how innefficient it is.

the mma does give specific direction, but no more direction than any plan would, including a simple budget software since it is physically not making a single payment for you. Heck, an accountant might be cheaper than the UFF. I feel the MMA software is incredibly overpriced, is presented as performing a "complex optimization algorithm" while performing no such thing (certainly not optimal), just merely moving money around to make it look like no prepayment is being made, while, indeed, complete prepayment is being made. all mortgage accelerators (bi-weekly, mma, etc) all revolve around prepayments while trying to make it obvious that prepayment is happening.

i cannot think of one single positive thing to say about the MMA. if you buy the UFF's version, it's outrageously expensive, to the point of being immoral. it's inefficient versus just simple a bank approach, which is directly the opposite of what they claim. the fact that it turns your checking account into a debt rather than an asset is dangerous for "financially challenged" people, who are the ones that are usually targeted since they just don't know any better. people living paycheck to paycheck with only a little discretionary income put themselves further at risk with an MMA by consuming themselves in debt. any increase in expenses and the interest charges pile up immediately instead of giving them at least a short time to try to correct their course.

it's just bad news all the way around. the fact that it's distribution system is an MLM is just the icing on the cake. sorry, but the claims by the UFF have really gone too far, IMO. hopefully, one day, the FTC will drop the hammer on them and clean up their marketing and expose them for what they are (a glorified $3500 egg timer that dings at the wrong times).

i've seen the powerpoint presentation used at "seminars" and it's ripe with math errors, misleading statements, and frankly, outright lies.

[Logan]

You make some valid points and I can certainly appreciate the passion in your perspective.

Different strokes for different folks, mmm?

[calvinandhobbes]

Originally Posted by Logan

You make some valid points and I can certainly appreciate the passion in your perspective.

Different strokes for different folks, mmm?

absolutely. some people think it's ok to prey on the uneducated, other's not so much. Count me in the "not so much."

7secrets, where did you go? I thought we were going to run our simulation and show the true power of the MMA? Funny, same thing always happens. No one selling this stuff ever want's it to be seen in action. I wonder why?

[7secrets]

[quote=calvinandhobbes]Taken from my post in page 6 to logan:

My proposal for a sample problem:

1. $200,000 mortgage, 6.5%, 30 years, $1264.14 payment due on the 1st of each month.
2. HELOC rate of 8% (up to $50k), savings rate of 5%.
3. After tax income of $5000, paid on the 30th, we start with one month's paycheck in the bank (ie, we have $$ to make our first mortgage payment on the 1st).
4. Bills (excluding mortgage) are $2,000 due on the 26th of each month.
5. HELOC starts with $3500 for program for you

30 days in each month for simplicity. Before you ask, i currently get 6% on my checking account, so 5% is a gift to you.

And if you want to really show what your product is worth, we could remove item #5 and demonstrate it's true value.

That's all you should need. What are your first month's money movements?

Mine:
1st, pay $3000 to the mortgage.
26th, pay $2000 in bills.
30th, $5000 paycheck is deposited in checking account

Balances:

Mortgage, $198,0833.33 (interest accrued: $1083.33, principal paid: $1916.67).
Bank Account, $5007.64 (interest accrued: $7.04, based on an average daily balance of $1833.33)

Net: (cash-debt): -$193,075.69

(waiting for you to shake your magic eight ball software....)[/QUOTE

I have to agree with Logan...different strokes! That being said, I never disagreed with your plan...I know paying additional principle payments each month will pay off your mortgage quicker than making only scheduled payments, save interest, etc. That plan takes two things. First, it takes discipline (which the MMA requires as well) and second, it takes a fair amount of discretionary income to see quick results. Unfortunately not everyone has nearly $2000 discretionary each month after making all their monthly payments. The MMA allows for that with the option of consolidating debt in the HELOC to free up some income and in the end becoming entirely debt free...not just mortgage free.

That being said, after running the MMA analysis (shaking my magic eight ball) the results show that the $200,000 mortgage could be paid off in full in 7.1 years saving over $200,000 in interest payments (and yes that interest savings does include the interest that would be paid on the average daily balance of the HELOC). The first months money movements would show up once activated, however from past experience, starting with $5000 in the bank that you would put towards the HELOC...it would pay off the $3500 MMA fee balance and then call for a funds transfer to your principle of the $1500 + probably an additional $2-3000. Over the 7.1 years, the $3500 bought you an effective interest rate of 1.534% -- how much do people pay to refi their homes to save 3/4-1%? And that just starts the whole high interest payment schedule over!! Mortgage balance at the end of year one is $179,869. I will provide a copy of the analysis to you upon request, however I don't want to offend anyone on the site with "marketing".

For the record, I did follow through, didn't disappear when it was time to act. The program works. Just as with any program that you put your mind to. The results are real and guaranteed and substantial. I have a very good hunch that I'm not going to convince you and I'm ok with that. To each their own...I think it's great that you are able to follow through with your simple additional principle structure to the extent that you do. I hope you also are able to help people pay off their mortgages and become entirely debt free. In the end that is the objective. Far too much interest is paid every day. You know what they say, "them that understands interest earns it, thems that don't pays it!" Hope we can be at peace with this conflict.

Best to you "hobbes"!

[calvinandhobbes]

Originally Posted by 7secrets

I have to agree with Logan...different strokes! That being said, I never disagreed with your plan...I know paying additional principle payments each month will pay off your mortgage quicker than making only scheduled payments, save interest, etc. That plan takes two things. First, it takes discipline (which the MMA requires as well) and second, it takes a fair amount of discretionary income to see quick results. Unfortunately not everyone has nearly $2000 discretionary each month after making all their monthly payments. The MMA allows for that with the option of consolidating debt in the HELOC to free up some income and in the end becoming entirely debt free...not just mortgage free.

the MMA does not work either without discretionary income. Implying that is nothing short of fraud. that's the whole point, it's just a prepayment scheme that anyone can do with a checkbook. the standard method I am talking of works with multiple debts, there's just a few more rules to follow. MMA software is good at slowing down a good prepayment plan, that's it. Why on earth would someone pay A LOT of money to slow down their ability to repay debt?