Angel With The Inkwell

[Jerseee]

Jon,


i see your point and thanks for the compliment.


The knifemaker example is good.& In a perfect world that statement could hold up.& But look what happened to OJ Simpson.& he was found not guilty (no comment) but, he was still attacked financially.& so is he guilty or not?& regardless, he still had to pay for something that was (hmmm) proven that he did not do or had nothing to do with.


some people do not want to take responsibility for their actions so they rely on others to come up with a magic process to get them out of a situation.& this is evident by the debacle of UCCSG.& It is not that the process did not work--but folks did it and some did not bother to educate themselves and wanted their money back or file lawsuits or whatever after it backfired on them.


why would I want that headache trying to help folks by supplying them documents?& when I could educate.& Now you may be an honorable person trying to learn what you can but, you cannot really speak for everyone's character if they buy something and it does not work.& regardless if you have a disclaimer or not.


With what you have experienced so far with Ms. joy and the documents you have from her, would you try and do something like that where the risks outweigh the guarantees?


At least with education you do 2 things for yourself.& 1. you better yourself and become self-sufficient 2. you are truly empowered as a sovereign

instead of supplying "boilerplate" documents to people, i had intended that you include either:& 1) the actual doc(s) you sent to the agency being discussed, or 2) an example of such.


the problem with learning these processes is just that - generally one learns the process but falls flat on the specifics.& there must be some way to teach the specifics w/o necessarily giving a "boilerplate" (which everyone should realize doesn't always work) from which to copy.


the tool is only as good as the craftsman using it.&


i know that attempting to find good documents to use as a start for my situations is nigh on impossible - i've tried searching using many different parameters and came up with nada.& process/theory/general things are easy to find by contrast.


so, i'd say that your experiences, while worth a good read, would also still be best backed up by showing what you have done.& caveat emptor.


while i know oj was found NG of the criminal act of murder, i had basically really not given a fig about much of that mess, i didn't know he was found guilty in civil court.


i think in your case if you published documents that worked for you, and you have the evidence, obviously, to back up that claim, you'd be safe as long as you didn't go beyond that claim ("this worked for me."& instead of "this worked for me so it will work for you."& in the first version you don't claim it will work for anyone else).& the person who screwed up would have to claim & prove malicious intent on your behalf.


besides, knowing what you know, i'm sure you'd make that impossible - as it would already be so.


i'm still of the opinion you could publish your material safely - as long as you don't claim the documents will work (like CTC3 does) beyond what you had done with them.


as we all know, or should know, everybody's situation is slightly different and requires some fresh perspective.


jon

[Ice]

jon,


Okay, so lets say that I package it all up and start selling... just like the rest do.


Questions: What do I accomplish and who gets assistance from my "business"??


Answers: I accomplish very little because only those that purchase the knowledge from me will benefit... and that would be a small portion of those in need of such knowledge because the fees charged would put it out of reach for the majority.


If, on the other hand, I do as I am doing here at suijuris and freely give as much as I can... I reach the MAJORITY and that could actually cause REAL CHANGE, not only in the life of a few individuals... but for all.


The question is this:& What is the goal?


My goal is to make real change... not to line my pockets and live in splendor while the rest of you try to figure out which path to walk.


My point is simple... if these experts really had a sincere motive the fees would not put their seminars out of reach for the majority.& Anyone can plainly see that the motive is to make money... and lots of it.


&

it looks to me as if we've reached a stipulation!& yay!


now, as to what you do with your "package" is up to you.& by putting together this site, etc., you have chosen to take your "package" and disseminate it for free.& personally i'm glad you did.& i would, however, not fault you for doing otherwise.& i may not appreciate it, but i would not fault you.


i cannot address the fees assessed for seminars.& i know i felt Ms. Joy's fee to attend rather inexpensive compared to some others i've heard about.


'nuff said afa i'm concerned.


jon

Greetings All,


Just wanted to add my two cents.


I have been to MANY of the seminars on different topics i.e Tax, Redemption, UCC, etc.. Although I have had to scrape and scrap to get the cash for most of these events, many of the attendants there have spoken of hundreds of thousands of dollars in debts, taxes, whatever.


If you have the cash and need valid information/assistance, then you should be charged fairly. If not, then...


As far as any "service" provider, leave them alone and let them conduct their business in ther own way. If you cannot afford it, go to the law libray, sui juris.net, and other resources.


As far as stuff not working, mostly ALL of these techniques work. Everyone just seems to want an "apology letter" or a certification saying...CONGRATULATIONS, YOU BEAT THE SYSTEM, PLEASE REPORT TO THE KING OF THE WORLD TO GET YOUR REWARD".


Most have learned the theory & practice. But, few have knowledge of the followthrough...


PEACE & LOVE

[Jerseee]

jon,


i see your point and understand your position but, not everyone thinks the way you and i do.& I truly believe that folks will take the easy way out and just make a template of my docs and replace some info so it fits their needs.& that is my concern.& this is a concern because i am not sure of their knowledge level and their understanding of honor and the power of acceptance.


Even on this forum and other forums, you have folks who have been doing this stuff for years and they are still arguing about this debt and that debt, when they just ask a simple question--"please certify and verify the debt and i will tender payment immediately".


It is that simple.& I would be better off giving a seminar with template docs and charging 275.00 a pop.& lol& (just kidding)


but seriously, you may do the honorable thing but, brom my experience on TSN, and even here, some folks get caught by their own lack of knowledge--when the fact is that the majority of processes actually works.


i don't know...it just does not feel right to have something out there with my name on it and not be responsible for my creation--despite the next man's character and integrity.& they will find a way to get to you.& i'd rather teach then do something for someone who has not grasped the idea of honor and dishonor, and my favorite.....never argue.& this is what I fear most!& folks will try my technique and then when they get a negative response they want to argue just because it has worked for me--it should automatically work for them.& hell they paid for it to work for them so, can you blame them?

In four years of this stuff, I've "bought" my share of "information" and "help." I'm goin' with Ice on this one: Most everything you really need is "free." It's here, there, somewhere. You just gotta find it.& After it's found--and yes, I agree that sometimes trying to make personally applicable seems impossible--you will always find a "somebody" who'll help with the details.&(Guardian Angels I call 'em when I'm lost in my&big-truck. Don't care where I am or how bad the situation, a "somebody" always comes along....).


Now, do I regret the "money" I've spent? No, not really. It was, after all, just part of what has proven to be an absolutely vital education.


I think no one begrudges anyone else the duty of making a living. But to some, the motive behind it takes on an importance as well. (In the '70s, I used to do quite a bit of preaching. Was getting really popular. Realized, "Hey, I can make a lot of money doing this." Haven't preached a sermon since--at least not from behind a pulpit.)


And what else I've learned in four years that's mentioned frequently here, but maybe not frequently enough, is this:


It's not about that proverbial "silver bullet" that someone comes up with that will "work," leaving everyone else with nothing to do but "fill in the blanks."& This whole thing of challenging the IRS, banks, and the rest of the bastards ruining our lives is about an "attitude," a new point-of-view, Zen, something. It's about "heart," about coming to know that you know that you know that you're absolutely one-hundred per-cent correct in your posture and attitudes and that no matter what the "theys" do to you, it will come down to one thing:


You were right. They were wrong. But they used the only thing they have going in order to "win," and that's their Power.


It's that poster of the little field mouse giving the finger to the eagle just before the eagle snatches him up for lunch. Caption reads: "Last Great Act of Defiance."


That's all this is about. Each of us has to reach our breaking-point so we'll stand on our own, and probably alone, and have our own last great act of defiance.


Randy

[Jerseee]

Randy,

Thanks.

Randy,


It's hard to type with my eyes watered. Seems to me you just defined an American!


Thanks, Jim

i agree with the concept that processes only work when we make them work. Let me share some personal information that happened to me and that i posted at truthseekers in November. I was arrested last year and held in jail and couldnt come up with my bond money. My mother in the meantime without my knowledge had filed a common law writ of habeas corpus and sent in a bill of exchange. In the writ, she stated that statutory law was unconstitutional, that only gold and silver coin could be demanded for payment of my bail, and that she had a recorded bill of exchange on file for my bond. I had been in jail 3 months until she did this without my knowledge. Within 10 days they took me to court and worked out a plea deal after she sent this stuff in!! I can not over emphasise the point that they did this within 10 days!! Now, what they did was, they met me halfway, they got rid of the fines i was suppose to have ($1,500.00) after original giving me that fine in court, sent my mom a letter from the county&attorney saying that sense i plea dealed to the charges that the writ of habeas corpus and bill of exchange were moot points now!! What they did was ran from the paperwork and met me halfway. They were scared of tort damages!! The funny part about all this is the fact that i didnt know at the time i was in court that all this was going on behind the scenes. If i knew, i would have asked for acquital on all charges instead of taking a time served plea deal. The point im making with all this is the stuff aint about will it works. It ALL works. They just trick us back into dishonor and we let them continue to do that. Thats what they did to me in a sense. They were faced with a lot of exposed tort damages so they met me halfway hoping that would appease me. The writ of habeas corpus sealed the deal with the bill of exchange issue. They couldnt argue anymore about it!