Contractor's licenses??

[Ice]

Jersee,


This early in the morn (actually, late in my day) I had to follow your statements one by one... and to insure I didn't miss anything... well, here it is:


Good point. Touche' I have to reluctantly agree with you but with a few conditions.
I do have a few of questions if you don't mind....
the dealership you spoke of in your last post; are they still in business? Yes, they are... and they are thriving... are top in the region.& (#1 Toyota, Lexus and Buick dealerships in Northern Illinois, if I remember correctly).
Also, I really appreciate SJ's efforts with this site and its success. With that being said, didn't we have to register here? yep.&
Is SuiJuris replacing BB? Nope.&
Is Sui Juris bias to former TSN, UCCSG, LRG, Familyguardian, etc... members? Nope.& Sui Juris is not bias to former members of other sites.&
Does this site refer members and visitors to other sites and other sources of information? Members of this little community might refer others to other resources.& But SuiJuris doesn't actually do it.
Our focus here is self-sufficiency and empowerment through knowledge. Can't the same information here be found elsewhere as well? Yep... I'm sure that the majority of it can.& But how would I know that if my neighbor didn't inform me of it?
While you are answering my questions, please keep in mind what my original position is: A valuable resource for the public when it comes to contractors. An organization where you can get answers and possibly some assistance. An alternative to BB. Sounds like Sui Juris to me. Nope... doesn't sound like it to me.Sui Juris isn't an "organization".& And that's where you miss the mark in your analogy.& SuiJuris IS THE COMMUNITY.& What you are suggesting is something that is SEPARATE FROM THE COMMUNITY in order to assist the community in some fashion... but it wouldn't assist ALL THE CONTRACTORS because the contractors all have different quality of work.& In that instance... someone loses because someone else has made a decision -- whether made from bias or fact -- in regards to their "quality" of work.& Maybe some would be kept out because of preference for a particular few.& Who is it that is going to make these decisions?& And why is someone going to make these decisions for other people??


See the difference now?


If I want a guy to work on my home... I would check with people I know and see who they would recommend... and WHY.& Why would I want to go to any organization - private or otherwise - and take their word for it?& If my neighbor had some work done on his home... I could get the scoop, first hand, about the quality of work and all that.


Isn't that closer to what we do here?& We find out from experience and then share that experience.& We ain't exactly asking BB for assistance... are we?& What other organization are we asking for assistance?& If I post in here for assistance -- I'm asking my neighbors -- not some organization.& And, I'm not going to blindly take their advice -- I'm going to research it thoroughly... and I'm going to pump them for as much&detail as I can get.& How would going to any organization for information about a contractor be of any help to me when I'm going to do my own research anyway?& What is some guy behind a desk going to tell me that one of the "customers" can't?& All that guy could do is "point me in a certain direction"... and a phone book could do that!


The biggest point that I can make is that WE ARE THE COMMUNITY... not an organization.& There isn't any "license" and there are no "fees" here.& This isn't my job/business... I just live here... I'm just one of your neighbors in this small but growing community.


Ice

[Ice]

Jerseee,


Case in point -- remember the thread about that president guy -- the supposedly Sovereign group with a leader that decided HE KNOWS WHAT'S BEST?


That is what happens when you "organize".


I like the way we do it here.
Like the way we are going back and forth on this particular point.


Ice


&

[Jerseee]

Ice,

I understand, but the point has not been missed.

there is a heirarchy here. there are rules here. there are common law boundaries here. This is a organization if it has members.

Although it is not run traditionally like a corporate type organization--sui juris is an organization--a community based organization formed into a quasi-type republic. Where every voice can be heard without censor.

The car dealership is an organization. It was successful through its approach and function.

The situation that happened with the group associated with Rice Mcleod was an organization. It was and probably still runs as an oligarchy or democracy--not good when your mission is freedom. Its approach and function.

Suijuris.net is an organization. You do not have to collect money to justify its existence. the membership does that. We just celebrated over 1000 members--A success.

Remember the car dealership question:

"the dealership you spoke of in your last post; are they still in business? Yes, they are... and they are thriving... are top in the region. (#1 Toyota, Lexus and Buick dealerships in Northern Illinois, if I remember correctly)."

A success through organization by use of its approach and function.


"Our focus here is self-sufficiency and empowerment through knowledge. Can't the same information here be found elsewhere as well? Yep... I'm sure that the majority of it can. But how would I know that if my neighbor didn't inform me of it?"

Your neighbor could also point you to a valuable resource to get information (word of mouth) from a contractors website that exposes scams and gives actual costs and the like. Sounds like suijuris.net to me.

I am not suggesting a full blown organization where someone sits behind a desk. I am suggesting a resource center--similar to this one. Just as we have members--the contractors can be members. No one should be allowed to defame another contractor--that is not its purpose. It is a resource center to protect the consumer. Just like we are here.

If you run your organization as an elitist type organization--then that is what it will be. But if you stick with the intention that it will be a hub of valuable information for cusomters and not a decision-making body--then that is what it will be.

An example of what I mean is the recent posts by billymac. SJ made it clear (and you also) that this is not that type of place to air grievances. Rory could establish the same type of "community".

The whole point to my logic is to not give BB a way in again. Not to let BB divide what people have fought so hard for. And to keep it going from Rory's retirement--to a young upstart in the contractoring business.

the word "organization" may be throwing my point amiss but even in a community type setting--there is organization. Even if it is through word of mouth, under common law, and such. to organize does not necessarily mean to eventually fall under tyranny.

When we (suijuris) were being invaded by unsavory postings and comments--members here pulled together to protect the site. Rory's community is already doing the same thing. they organized under one common cause. Now we seek the fruits of their labor. But it doesn't stop there.

Like I said, beating BB is not the challenge--staying unified is.

Oh, this is not to imply that what you are saying is wrong--this is to state that I would prefer a preventive measure so BB has to think of another way to steal liberty. I just don't want to make it easy for BB. We don't make it easy for BB.

[suijuris]

To see examples of the community actively discussing organizations that may or may not be trustworthy, see the service providers forum. It is not always pretty, and not something to be proud of in some ways. But I will say this - the stories posted there get the job done!

No, suijuris is not replacing BB, as BB (the organization) makes the call on who will be targeted, based on the desire for fame, control, and money. Here, the COMMUNITY determines who will be targeted, based on their firsthand experience.

I believe our founding fathers attempted to replace one 'organization' with another. Now look where we are. But I think that can be in large attributed to humans being human.

Regards,
Sui Juris

[Jerseee]

SJ,

Yes that is it. But I did not infer that suijuris is replacing BB.

suijuris is an alternative to BB. Anyone here can still get a lawyer (BBs cronies) or they can check here and learn for themselves--an alternative.

Although there are many alternatives out there that are just as successful as this one; although, we do not practice tyranny here; moreover, there are rules here; additionally, we are succesful through approach and function; thus, we are organized....are we not?

Organize: "to arrange or form a coherent unity or functioning whole" "to arrange by systematic planning and united effort"

Damn This thread is GREAT!!!! LOL

[suijuris]

"We are organized....are we not?"

Yes we are, and only for one reason - a common goal. Only because of the overwhelming desire for personal freedom would any coherence or unity exist.

Yes, this is a good discussion!
Sui Juris

[Ice]

There is no hierarchy...&(Sui Juris "owns" the site... but the Members control it by participation).


The car dealership was a business -- not an organization.& They did not use any other organization to assist them.& The contractors don't need any organization to assist them.& The contractors don't need an organization that people can go to and check out their "performance" or any other thing.& The car dealership did not need an organization that potential customers could go to and check their track record out.


That was the point.& But you turned the "dealership" into an "organization" -- instead of putting the "dealership" on the same level as the "Contractors".& The point was missed.& You see... the dealership did not "organize" with other dealerships for any reason.& (One man owns all those dealerships... they are all ONE business.)


The dealership is successful because of satisfied customers... and the contractors can be successful because of satisfied customers.& They don't need any organization for any reason.& Why should each of them attach their "business" to any other mans "business" for any reason??& That ain't being "independent" and "self-reliant".


Here-- we are the "customers".& Not a business.& We are the "community".& Not an organization.& When the entities are clearly defined then&my point makes sense.& But you keep switching what these entities are and therein lies the confusion.


My point is very simple.& There is no reason for a bunch of businesses to "organize" as in relates to the community -- unless they have come together in an effort to beat down Tyranical "servants" as they did in Rory's case.& But to organize for any other reason is not necessary.& It serves no purpose.


Ice

[Jerseee]

Okay,

My position is that they organize to protect each other from uninvited third party intervention.

As we all know BB has declared war on the sovereigns and is hell bent on enslavement through contracts and duress (among other things).

Yes an entity that you speak of is not desired by me or any freedom loving human being. But, if this is all they want is to slap BB on the hand--I can assure you that is not going to prevent this subject of registration from ever surfacing again.

Some sort of prevent measure should be in place or they'll find themselves registering down at the county courthouse in a few years.

Can't ignore history.

[Rory]

Here is the latest....the chamber of commerce had their meet the candidates forum. It went very well, both of our candidates did great.



There is a new twist, with only days to go till election someone else dropped their hat into the ring as a write in. We feel that somehow the opposition convinced him to run to take votes away from us. His positions are closer to ours than theirs.



One of our members is a businessman in town with a good relationship with the radio station and he bought tons of spots starting yesterday through Monday. We are running three different ads. Each of our Candidates made one and one where two women are talking about the election over lunch pushing our candidates and our three measures.



We have been putting up many more yard signs and updating all of them to include a YES vote on our measures.



The City Commission came out in the paper yesterday blasting our measures and attempting to justify their position. Our group wrote a rebuttal that will be in the paper tomorrow.



Tomorrow we are going to put up more yard signs and put together our flyer/scratch pads/stickers with our candidates names on them to take to the polls that they can peel off and stick right to the ballot. Then on Saturday and Sunday we are going to canvass the whole town and not leave one house untouched, handing out our position flyer with the survey results that we conducted in April along with campaign scratch pads and the stickers.



Monday we have the high school cafeteria for a meet our candidates and then Tuesday. Whewww!



I know I have forgotten something but this is all I can remember for now. I'll try and update you all again before election.



Rory



P.S. Oh yeah, we are going to have a phone campaign to call as many people as we can the day and night before the election. If we lose it won't be for lack of trying.

[Ice]

Go get 'em, Rory!!