Contractor's licenses??

[Rory]

>>Rory was looking for a way to have his customers feel more secure about hiring contractors.<<


I haven't heard any customers (other than the&one below) feeling unsecure about hiring contractors, all this started by a city councilman hiring the cheapest man he could find to put up the cheapest siding he could find and then when a big wind came up some of his siding blew off. One city councilman decided to start this whole mess.



>>If a contractor does something wrong and has no supporting organization--the local government will start saying, "see, we tried to tell you that you needed us! Let us have them register with us so we can punish the shady contractor."<<


We already have a judicial system in place to take care of this situation....we don't need to add another level of government to handle these situations.


>>Quit chest thumping and organize<<


We have been organizing, we will have to see just how effective we have become in about a week.


>>You have to give something to get something>>


This reminds me of the movie "Braveheart" the Nobles would always negotiate and what would happen is the Nobles would get more land but the common people would have to give their wives up to the local administrator on their wedding night to say the least.


Also tell me what they (gov)&are giving up in this situation. You tell me to give something up to get something. If I do that it will be steps toward their position not toward mine.


I have time for one more point. If you go back a couple of pages here &you will see a survey that we put out. We mailed out, handed out and e-mailed out hundreds of surveys and the results came in.& Over %95 of the respondents wanted the city to repeal all this and said that they believe that they should be able to hire ANYONE they wanted to to work on their property. They (over&%95) also said that the city did not have the best interests of the people in mind when they passed all these new rules. Also we circulated a petition for 3 measures that will be on the ballet to get rid of this. People we calling us up to asking where they could go to sign. Like I said before we will see in about a week how effective we have been.


Rory


&

[Jerseee]

Rory.

If you do not understand your enemy and their tactics, you will be fighting yourself and not them.

One of their most famous tactics is to divide and conquer. Another is Propaganda or mass misinformation. Another is fear. Another is defamation of character. The list goes on and on.

Organization does not end with just putting it all together. You will have turncoats, spies, infiltrators to spread rumors and the like. I was merely trying to explain that folks will go back to what they know if what you are doing does not seem to work. I have experienced this in small situations not anything as big as yours. nevertheless it happened. It has happened since the moment they befriended the indians to this day.

Look, I'm only trying to help you stay focused. Please ignore my two-scents--its not gospel--just my thoughts. Good luck.

[Rory]

>>One of their most famous tactics is to divide and conquer. Another is Propaganda or mass misinformation. Another is fear. Another is defamation of character. The list goes on and on.<<


You are absolutely right with the exception of the first tactic they use is "ignore and they will just go away", that didn't work and they tried to divide and conquer and&that almost worked. Propaganda is a tool that they have been using for a long time along with mass misinformation and fear. Defamation of character has been use to small extent and I expect this final week the mud will be flying. We are expecting an all out attack this week because they are losing and losing bad right now.


This Thursday the chamber of commerce is having a meet the candidates forum that I'm sure will be very interesting. We are going to have our own town meeting the night before the election to either do damage control or build on our successes. This next week is going to be an exciting one....can sure use all your prayers.


We ran out of campaign yard signs today and some thought that we had enough out. Right now we have the opposition beat in yard signs at least 30 to one. I told the campaign treasurer that for every sign the opposition puts up this week, we need to put up 10...order more yard signs.


If you drive into our town we have a bunch of those big 8 X 10 billboard signs all over too. The opposition has none.


We are putting out radio ads this week along with ads in the local paper.


June 8th can't get here fast enough.



&

[Ice]

Jerseee,


We will have to agree to disagree on this "organize" thing.& If people want a good contractor -- they will do their own investigation... they don't need some dimwit in a gov. office to tell them who is good or who isn't.& Second, when problems occur... there is a place to seek remedy... it's called "Court".


There isn't any need for a "private" organization to take the place of a "gov. dept".


We are supposed to be FREE.


Ice


&

[Jerseee]

Ice,

Got your point. However, I was not referring to a gov. agency. My position is long lasting power and not temporary power.

I feel deep down inside that this particular situation and thread is enormous for the towns people, Rory and sui juris. Please forgive my zeal.

Moreover, it is like a diary of some sorts. Anyway...yes people can just look in the phone book and get a contractor--as a matter of fact, they can do that now. But I really feel deep down inside that if Rory's organization offered more than just a solution to licensing and registration--this would be incredible.

I know we do not need to police ourselves but it could not hurt to do it and offer something to make folks feel better about the contractors position and their movement.

Yeah they can get relief in court but, if there was something more that contractors can offer a customer to help protect them from unsavory contractors--that would be a feather in their hat for the positions they seek in office.

Its one thing to fight for your rights--its another thing to offer a feasible solution to a potential problem to make the local government's assistance null and void.

So folks can run to court to get remedy but to have an organization behind you as well is tremendous. Just as we are somewhat orgainzed here at sui juris.

Ice just think of how many people we have helped through this medium solve their problems. members and visitors here tout this as a invaluable resource. this site has come under attack before, has been viewed by BB and has got other redemption groups interested in our successes. I have not heard or seen anyone blame this site for taking their money and not helping them. We offer empowerment through information. this can be duplicated for contractors as well. An invaluable resource to their customers. How do you think Rory get started?

By the way, I can't find suijuris.net in the phonebook. hahahahahahahaa (a little joke).

[suijuris]

Good one Jerseee.

I agree with Jerseee that an organization of some type COULD be beneficial. But in the end, I would take the same stance as Ice, and here is the reason why:

I take for example the BBB (better business bureau) - they are a non-government organization that people think are there to help them. But from what I have learned, it is quite the opposite. They are there to help the companies, by padding their pockets with fees that are basically for "satisfactory" rating.

The BBB may have started out with good intentions, but somewhere along the way they realized how they could maximize their profit, and the temptation was to great for some.

A contractor could use the trust system that is as old as humankind, and is used even today when one seeks employment - give out references! Sure, they can be corrupted, but they could also be added to a RICO suit if they give a potential client false information in return for a commission! Try suing the government when a "licensed" contractor does faulty work! Or how about suing the BBB when you are screwed by a business on there files with a "satisfactory" record!

Hey, I just gave myself a good idea - I think I will try that sometime!

Regards,
Sui Juris

[RICKY]

HI.. WHAT AN INTERESTING THREAD! THANKS RORY FOR THE JOURNAL-STYLE CONVEYANCE OF THE ONGOING STORY.


AS I READ THROUGH THE FIRST 4 PAGES LAST NIGHT AND THE LAST ONE THIS MORNING, I FOUND IT PRETTY INTERESTING FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT I WAS WITNESSING FREEDOM IN ACTION. (AND ACTUALLY NOT A WHOLE LOT OF INFLAMED, WORTHLESS, EMOTIONAL RHETORIC. THAT IS REFRESHING FROM OTHER THINGS I READ IN OTHER PLACES. ) I THINK THIS IS WHAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS HAD IN MIND FOR HOW WE GOVERN OURSELVES AT THE GRASS ROOTS LEVEL.


IF WE ACT AS PEOPLE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN OUR PRECIOUS LIVES, WE WILL COMMUNICATE OUR DESIRES INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY, AND THEN TAKE ACTION. THIS THREAD SHOWS EVERYONE THAT READS IT HOW THE GOVERNMENT CAN TAKE OVER ANY AND ALL ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES, OR NOT IF WE STAY IN TOUCH.


IN THIS THREAD THERE HAS BEEN THE SUGGESTION TO ORGANIZE THE CONTRACTORS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE. AND THERE HAS BEEN THE CONTRA-SUGGESTION THAT IT IS NOT NEEDED. IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THIS TOWN IS CAPABLE OF FOLLOWING THE LATTER, USING THEIR COUNCIL, THEIR OWN INITIATIVE, AND THEIR COURTS TO HANDLE THEIR PROBLEMS IN THE MATTER OF CONTRACTORS, INSURANCES AND CRAFTMANSHIP/WORKMANSHIP. IT&SEEMS LIKE THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT CAN GUIDE THE OTHERS AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO GET INVOLVED, WITH RORY BEING ONE OF THEM.


I, FOR ONE, AM NOT FOR DEVELOPING AN ORGANIZATION TO HANDLE THESE SITUATIONS. IT IS TOO EASY TO LET THEM TAKE OVER AND HANDLE THE SITUATION FOR THE SHEEPLE. THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OR ORGANIZATION WILL BE HUMANS. AND AS A GROUP, HUMANS WILL BECOME CONTINUALLY MORE CONTROLLING (IT'S THE POWER THING) AND EVENTUALLY THERE WILL BE ANOTHER DICTATORIAL GROUP SIMILAR TO THE CURRENT COUNCIL. THIS IS JUST HUMAN NATURE FOLKS. I'VE BEEN ON COMMITTEES AND BOARDS AND IN ORGANIZATIONS. THINGS JUST GO THAT WAY. ( ANIMAL FARM? )


SO WHEREEVER THIS LITTLE TOWN OF 7000 IS, WITH PEOPLE LIKE RORY, ( WHO IS WORKING, RAISING 4 KIDS, AND STILL BEING INVOLVED IS HIS OWN GOVERNING AS ACCORDED TO EACH OF US THROUGH OUR CONSTITUTION ), I WOULD LOVE TO GIVE THEM A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR BEING "OF AND BY THE PEOPLE".


STUDENTS OF HIGH SCHOOL GOVERNMENT CLASSES SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO READ THIS THREAD.


THANKS TO RORY, JERSEEE, ICE, JON, SUI JURIS AND OTHERS THAT I MAY HAVE MISSED HERE FOR THIS GREAT THREAD. RICKY

[Jerseee]

yes, i must say that this is a very good thread.

I am in a position that I agree with my counterparts on their opposition of my position.

But what I am encouraging is to cutoff the head of a potential beast that will grow out of discontent.

If you fail to plan now; you plan to fail in the future.

Just as this movement started out honest--it can stay that way. That is the challenge. beating the government is not the real challenge. Staying self-sufficient and true to one another is. Unity does not allow third party intervention.

I do not look for the gloom and doom of the impending power struggles. Put things in place that prevent that and things in place that prevent third party interlopers.

the organization can be formed as a republic. Hell.....power struggles are inevitable as people strive for glory and nobility within a community. that no one can do anything about but, you don't neglect the body because the head is healthy.

You use the head to take care of the body and the head with preventive medicine.

Guys/gals, this is a great thread and stimulating dialogue! This shows the individuality of our members and the strength of our resolve together for independence and self-sufficiency.

Thanks SJ! Thanks Ice. thanks all. I'm sure there is more to come. This is great.

[Ice]

I copied my post from the other thread... this is the more appropriate place for it.& Notice my point -- as I notice Jerseees.& Jerseees suggestion is really about making the "sheeple" (because they really still are "sheeple") feel a bit more secure about what is happening at this moment.& But I feel that is counter productive to the goal -- which is to secure freedom and instill in others the VALUES surrounding the issue of liberty and freedom... including self reliance and self responsibility.


Jerseee,



Here, "information" is offered.



In the other instance, it seemed to me that an "organization" that would more or less "replace" a dept. of BB was the issue.& Each of us needs to make up our own minds about who we do business with.& We don't need an "organization" to keep track of who does good work or who doesn't to make it easier for us.& Too much "regulation" of private business -- whether by the government or a "private" organization isn't good.& It is our personal responsibility to determine the character of those we engage in business.



I worked for an auto dealership in Illinois that didn't advertise on TV at all.& The majority of their business was "word of mouth"... one satisfied customer leads to more customers.& And they were a great dealership to work for... they put customers FIRST.



Why would&an "organization" be needed in THAT instance??& A contractor that does good work will get recommended -- one that does not&do good work will have a bad reputation to overcome.& Pretty simple really.



See the difference?& We only offer information here... and a list of other locations of where to get information.& How many "recommendations" are made here?... and what are those recommendations based on?& Everything here is "word of mouth"... just a community of people sharing "experiences" and "knowledge gained".



In any "community" that can be done.& In a town like Rory's, people will pass on the experiences they have had regarding their business dealings... and no organization's recommendation&can replace the advantage a business has when that business has SATISFIED CUSTOMERS.



In Rory's situation, the people "organized" in order to pull the reigns of BB because BB was over stepping the authority the people had granted to BB.



As I stated in that thread, We are FREE.& We need to protect that freedom and not allow anyone to place a "fee" on our right to work and should not allow any entity to restrict our right to work.& The only one that can succeed in business is the one that "performs".



Ice


This is one heck of a thread!& Thanks Rory!

[Jerseee]

Ice,

Good point. Touche' I have to reluctantly agree with you but with a few conditions.

I do have a few of questions if you don't mind....

the dealership you spoke of in your last post; are they still in business?

Also, I really appreciate SJ's efforts with this site and its success. With that being said, didn't we have to register here? Is SuiJuris replacing BB?

Is Sui Juris bias to former TSN, UCCSG, LRG, Familyguardian, etc... members?

Does this site refer members and visitors to other sites and other sources of information?

Our focus here is self-sufficiency and empowerment through knowledge. Can't the same information here be found elsewhere as well?

While you are answering my questions, please keep in mind what my original position is:

A valuable resource for the public when it comes to contractors. An organization where you can get answers and possibly some assistance. An alternative to BB. Sounds like Sui Juris to me.