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  #1  
Old 02-23-2004, 11:30 AM
Don Don is offline
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LAND PATENT SUCCESS



I want to thank everyone who helped in my land patent research. I was able to file my land patent in the county court house, and in the Arkansas secretary of state's office.


The county people had a lot of questions (which remain unanswered), I mostly told them I was doing this on my attorney's advice.


Ice, Jersee a special thanks to you.


If you are persistant most of the government peons will capitualte to your request. Don't push them too hard, just make sure they think you know what you are doing.


&


Thanks, Don
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  #2  
Old 02-23-2004, 11:47 AM
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suijuris suijuris is offline
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Re:LAND PATENT SUCCESS

Another good answer for people with questions is "I am doing this for estate planning purposes". That will shut most of them up....

Sui Juris
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  #3  
Old 02-23-2004, 01:47 PM
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Ice Ice is offline
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Re:LAND PATENT SUCCESS



Don,


It is good to know that everything has worked out.& Now, if "they" come calling... you'll have Supreme Court cites to stand on!


Ice
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  #4  
Old 02-23-2004, 03:24 PM
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Jerseee Jerseee is offline
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Re:LAND PATENT SUCCESS



Don,


I appreciate the compliment but, hats off to you buddy.& You made it work!!!& we only gave you the info that you needed to catch a fish! This would not have been possible if were not for Sui Juris providing this medium in order to help folks gain their personal freedom.


have fun
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  #5  
Old 10-29-2004, 05:11 AM
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LAND PATENT SUCCESS

I filed my land patent yesterday with the county recorders office here in Columbus, Ohio I didnt file it with the secratary of state yet was wating to get the documents back from the county I want to know how do u go about fileing them with the secratary of state and what do I do when the creditors call the sherriff sale is today on my land so i want to know what to do
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  #6  
Old 10-29-2004, 07:50 AM
onemaster
 
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LAND PATENT SUCCESS

Guys, I don't mean to be obstinate, but isn't a success defined as having stood the test of a challenge? Here is some case law that I have seen recently which does not support this kind of effort at all. Read and decide for yourselves:



Hilgeford v. Peoples Bank, 776 F.2d 176 (7th Cir. 1985)

Argued that drafting and signing a "federal land patent" grants an interest superior to that of a bank trying to foreclose.



"Our review of the briefs and record persuades us that this is vexatious litigation; an appropriate case for the imposition of sanctions. The Hilgefords have no support for their claims of superior title or federal jurisdiction. Their brief was also woefully inadequate. We can think of no other reason for this appeal other than delay, harassment, or sheer obstinancy. Reid, 715 F.2d at 1155. Accordingly, we award the Bank $500 in damages for this frivolous appeal in addition to the costs allowed by Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure 39."



Wisconsin v. Glick, 782 F.2d 670 (7th Cir. 1986)

Argued that a land patent from the United States conveyed clear title and no one may encumber the property with mortgages, thereby preventing foreclosure.



"These removals vexatiously multiplied the proceedings in the original sense of that phrase. And federal courts lack the principal weapons available to the state courts to prevent harassing litigation. Because the appellants will not be sentenced in federal court, the court cannot impose the costs of prosecution as part of the sentence or augment any sentence of incarceration under the principle of Grayson. It is attorneys' fees and damages under Rule 38 or nothing.



"An award of damages under Rule 38 in these cases will not stifle the vigorous defense of criminal charges. It will, however, ensure that the appellants and others like them think twice before removing to federal court criminal prosecutions that belong in state court. These petitions for removal had no conceivable foundation. Each defendant therefore is assessed $500 in damages under Fed.R.App.P. 38, in addition to double costs."



Nixon v. Individual Head of St. Joseph Mortgage Co., 612 F.Supp. 253 (N.D.Ind. 1985)

Argued that court should dismiss foreclosure action on the basis of a "land patent" which he drafted, executed, and recorded in the County Recorder of Deeds Office.



"For the reasons stated above, the defendants' motion to dismiss is hereby GRANTED, and this cause dismissed in its entirety. Plaintiff is hereby ORDERED to pay Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) each to defendants St. Joseph Mortgage Company and Donald D. Martin for attorney's fees incurred in this case as a sanction for filing this lawsuit."



Britt v. Federal Land Bank Assoc. of St. Louis, 505 N.E.2d 387 (Ill.App.2d. 1987)

Argued that creation of land patents required that the bank return foreclosed property to possession of plaintiffs.



"The assertion in the Britts' brief that they hold "fee simple allodial title" is untenable. The Britts have never held sovereign title and now have been divested of their fee simple title by due process of law in the foreclosure action.

The purported "perfected patent" filed by the Britts matches the description of similar documents filed in other States. In Wisconsin v. Glick (7th Cir.1986), 782 F.2d 670, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals described these "new land patents" in the following terms: "People saddled with mortgages may treasure the idea of having clean title to their homes. The usual way to obtain clean title is to pay one's debts. Some have decided that it is cheaper to write a 'land patent' purporting to convey unassailable title, and to file that 'patent' in the recording system." 782 F.2d 670, 671-72.

The "new patent" or "perfected patent" theory asserted on appeal, as it relates to the original patents, is also defeated by the estoppel effect of the foreclosure judgment. To the extent that the new theory may be construed as a separate and independent claim, it will be accorded the same treatment by this court that it has been accorded by the district courts of Indiana, Wisconsin and Minnesota and by the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. It is frivolous and without basis and should not be raised in the circuit courts of this State.



As much as I would love to believe this is a silver bullet, I'm not convinced until it's been tested in full.



The ONLY ways to really stop a foreclosure - unless someone can present proof otherwise:



1 - Pay the "note" in full

2 - Negotiate a forebearance agreement

3 - Sell the property

4 - File Bankruptcy and pray it goes in your favor

5 - File a legit complaint against "the bank" and file a Lis Pendens on the property to tie it up until the court decides

6 - ?



I am in the process of pursuing #5 unless someone can suggest an alternative that has actually stood up to the test of the court system and the powers that be. Like the Dorean process.



I would love to be wrong about this!





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  #7  
Old 10-30-2004, 10:18 PM
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Ice Ice is offline
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LAND PATENT SUCCESS

onemaster,



Don was challenged by his local government. Don overcame that challenge by asserting his rights in the Land Patent. The FACT that Don stopped any of the threatened actions is a SUCCESS.



I haven't even read your post past " . . . but isn't a success defined as having stood the test of a challenge?"



But upon reading further, you state that you have seen case law that does not support this kind of effort. My only answer to that is that we have Supreme Court cites that DO support asserting rights in the Land Patent.



In Don's case, he thwarted the local government from seizing his property. There is more detail in the original thread. This was NOT a foreclosure issue.



Ice


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  #8  
Old 10-31-2004, 05:09 AM
LT2DOGS
 
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LAND PATENT SUCCESS

Onemaster,



What you might also notice if you re-read those citations carefully, in one the court was saying-" a "land patent" which he <u><u><font color=red>drafted[/color]</u></u>", and in the other, they describe-""<u><font color=red>new land patents[/color]</u>", and "<u><font color=red>drafting[/color]</u> and signing a "federal land patent"-, as well as "Argued that <u><font color=red>creation[/color]</u> of land patents required that the bank return foreclosed property ",and yet another"Some have decided that it is cheaper to <u><font color=red>write[/color] </u>a 'land patent' purporting to convey unassailable title"<font color=red>[/color]---Reading it that way, it would appear that what the court might be doing is to confuse the issue, so as to rule on it adversely. The fact that these individuals created new documents, rather than make the existing patents current, and assert thier claim as an heir or assign,which is the proper way to asssert the patent as I understand it. One would have to read the cases and see the evidence, before he could be sure that the process was done properly. As these are inferior court rulings, it is not outside the realm of possiblity that these rulings are specifically intended to dissuade others from properly applying the process. They mention Vexaious litigation, which Mr. Cornforth described in his seminar, as bringing the same case before the court, 5 or more times within the same calendar year. By labeling it vexaious, it gives them a way out so they won't have to deal with it . I may be way off base on this, but it seems awful fishy that they would so easily rule to contradict what the Supreme court has decided numerous times.
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  #9  
Old 10-31-2004, 08:41 AM
TheBlackTruth TheBlackTruth is offline
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LAND PATENT SUCCESS

<font color=darkblue face=Verdana>Onemaster, I agree with LT2DOGS.



The losses you posted above seem to point to inept, poorly litigated cases by litigants who were unprepared, uneducated and misguided.



Check out the cases i posted in the article i submitted.



Onemaster, Your solution is #5 in that your claim against the bank is that their action would be a taking in violation of your absolute title to the property. The bank only has an "interest". An interest is always something less than title.



-BT[/color]
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2004, 08:26 AM
PJT04
 
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LAND PATENT SUCCESS

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackTruth
<font color=darkblue face=Verdana>Onemaster, I agree with LT2DOGS.



The losses you posted above seem to point to inept, poorly litigated cases by litigants who were unprepared, uneducated and misguided.



Check out the cases i posted in the article i submitted.



Onemaster, Your solution is #5 in that your claim against the bank is that their action would be a taking in violation of your absolute title to the property. The bank only has an "interest". An interest is always something less than title.



-BT[/color]

GOOD POINT BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ACTUAL FRAUD AND BREACH OF CONTRACT ISSUE. SHOULDN'T THIS BE THE MAIN FIGHTING TOOL AGAINST THE ALLEGED LENDER?
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