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  #481  
Old 07-01-2006, 11:33 AM
Shoonra Shoonra is offline
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I got around to listening to Dave Champion's radio show and he cited 44 USC 3506(c)(1)(B)(iii) for saying that the 1040 has to say on its face all of that PRA information. Actually, the law says that the govt agency should evaluate its forms to ....

Quote:
(B) ensure that each information collection ...
(iii) informs the person receiving the collection of information of:
(I) the reasons the information is being collected;
(II) the way the information is to be used;
(III) an estimate, to the extent practicable, of the burden {= time devoted to responding} of the collection;
(IV) whether responses to the collection of information are voluntary, required to obtain a benefit, or mandatory; and
(V) the fact that an agency may not conduct or sponso, and a person is not required to respond to, a collection of information unless it displays a valid control number.....

While the OMB number has to be "displayed" -- which usually means it is printed on the front page of the form itself -- the other PRA notification merely has to be conveyed in a way that will "inform" the person receiving it. The OMB regs - adopted ten years ago and never challenged - permits that boiler plate to be published in an accompanying instruction book, which is how the IRS does it for the 1040. No requirement that all that bulky information (just the time estimates for completing the 1040 and its various schedules cover a full page of the instruction booklet) must be on the questionnaire form itself.

Again, the OMB, whose employees get the same 1040 that the rest of us do, has not expressed dissatisfaction with the IRS's compliance, so it won't be easy for a defendant to persuade a court that the IRS is violating the PRA.
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  #482  
Old 07-01-2006, 11:45 AM
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dawgwise dawgwise is offline
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I usually find nothing worth while very easy.

What seems to be easy is for the DOJ to walk in two instances that I am aware with regard to PRA.

Which is it: (A) any old OMB displayed somewhere, or (B) an actual authentic valid OMB that conforms to the current act?

Last edited by dawgwise : 07-01-2006 at 07:21 PM.
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  #483  
Old 07-01-2006, 02:55 PM
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David Merrill David Merrill is offline
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Shoonra's up to her same old sophistry again. The reason the OMB# makes no sense is that the delegation of authority is borrowed from Title 27 - BATF.

Oh well... I am sounding like a broken record.
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  #484  
Old 07-02-2006, 06:43 AM
freeindeed freeindeed is offline
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There was a conference call with Lindsey yesterday. It was a very good call and he explains what is happening in a manner that all can understand it. As soon as it is available it will be on Lindsey's web site. I will let all know when that takes place and if interested you can listen to it.
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  #485  
Old 07-02-2006, 11:54 AM
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KaosTheory KaosTheory is offline
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When is the next conference call? I didn't see anything on the website about it.

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Originally Posted by freeindeed
There was a conference call with Lindsey yesterday. It was a very good call and he explains what is happening in a manner that all can understand it. As soon as it is available it will be on Lindsey's web site. I will let all know when that takes place and if interested you can listen to it.
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  #486  
Old 07-02-2006, 03:27 PM
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dawgwise dawgwise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
Shoonra's up to her same old sophistry again. The reason the OMB# makes no sense is that the delegation of authority is borrowed from Title 27 - BATF.

Oh well... I am sounding like a broken record.

David and whomever,
Shoonra posts some very valuable links and/or citations.
It is the presumptions and assumptions that tend to take away from what otherwise could be posts with great merit. I'm new and the post that the DOJ was somehow ethical personally dumbfounded me and those presumptions have continued. Thanks for the cites and discourse however.

KaosTheory,
I think Lindsey has a sign in wherein one receives special features. That may be how one would know of upcoming events or actions. Someone Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #487  
Old 07-02-2006, 03:41 PM
freeindeed freeindeed is offline
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For those interested I will post how to get on the conference call with Lindsey in the service providers thread.

Also, the belief is that the "income tax" is going to be replaced and it will be done with no notice. The PRA issue is on the money and the government has been caught with their pants down, if you will. Anyone that has been following this and read the dcouments Lindsey has provided will see this. The government is losing it's grip and has been for some time now. The numbers are growing in the tax honesty movement despite the fact that many have been thrown in jail. With the Russo film and the PRA the fraud is finally being exposed to large numbers of people. Does that mean that when the "income tax" is replaced with a new system it will be done according to the rule of law? Not unless people stand up and let our servant government know we are watching and holding them accountable. It is Lindsey's hope that people will educate themselves so that this will never happen again. Personally, that is asking a lot, but there is hope.

Last edited by freeindeed : 07-02-2006 at 04:00 PM.
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  #488  
Old 07-02-2006, 06:28 PM
PANICPASS PANICPASS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeindeed
Also, the belief is that the "income tax" is going to be replaced and it will be done with no notice. The PRA issue is on the money and the government has been caught with their pants down, if you will. Anyone that has been following this and read the dcouments Lindsey has provided will see this. The government is losing it's grip and has been for some time now. The numbers are growing in the tax honesty movement despite the fact that many have been thrown in jail. With the Russo film and the PRA the fraud is finally being exposed to large numbers of people. Does that mean that when the "income tax" is replaced with a new system it will be done according to the rule of law? Not unless people stand up and let our servant government know we are watching and holding them accountable. It is Lindsey's hope that people will educate themselves so that this will never happen again. Personally, that is asking a lot, but there is hope.

The government is not losing its grip. Without your SSN the government has no grip; without an SSN there would be no need for the Paperwork Reduction Act, as there wouldn't be much paperwork to reduce. The PRA is for Social Security Number users...and there are lots of them-- Lindsey Springer not excluded.
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  #489  
Old 07-02-2006, 06:33 PM
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David Merrill David Merrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANICPASS
The government is not losing its grip. Without your SSN the government has no grip; without an SSN there would be no need for the Paperwork Reduction Act, as there wouldn't be much paperwork to reduce. The PRA is for Social Security Number users...and there are lots of them-- Lindsey Springer not excluded.


Exactly. The PRA arguement is the same as it ever was. It fails and the citation on that are as long as any attorney's arm.
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  #490  
Old 07-02-2006, 06:47 PM
freeindeed freeindeed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
Exactly. The PRA arguement is the same as it ever was. It fails and the citation on that are as long as any attorney's arm.

The citations are all based on the PRA of 1980, not 1995. Did you read the revenue ruling of April 10, 2006? What PRA is that relying on? 1980 or 1995?
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