application revisited, and a step further

[goldphoenix]

New situation.

I worked three hours tonight at a pizza place. I filled out an application and put n/a where the ssn number was supposed to be. I was provided with forms to fill out and was told I had to bring them in by tomorrow in order to continue working there. I then worked three hours before the boss was told I hadn't filled out the forms yet.

The boss paid me cash for the three hours work. He wrote it off as outside labor. He runs a pizza franchise. He told me that his boss tells him he HAS to have me fill out a W-4 (federal), an I-9, and a State 4 form (state taxes?) in order to work there. I explained to him that the social security, and other taxes, etc., are voluntary withholding and that I cannot be forced to fill out the forms. He agreed, however, said I could not continue working there without filling out the forms, because his corporate tells him that's how it is. I told him I had no ssn (after all, it's not mine, I didn't create it, right?), and he said I had to have it in order to work. He told me that if I had social security admin call him and tell him that I didn't have to have the number in order to work for him or that I didn't have to pay the tax then he would be glad to keep me on. He also said that he didn't have the money or the time to fight it, but that if I wanted I could sue the corporation.

In this scenario, do I have a leg to stand on? Anyone willing to help me with this? I have researched quite a bit, however, I don't know anywhere near as much as most of you here on this board.

This fellow is reasonable and willing to give me a fair shake, so to speak, however, I'm not really even sure where to begin or what to do here. I'd like to make an effort on everyone's behalf involved in the freedom movement to make some small difference, however, I must admit I need some help doing that. Any takers? Any suggestions?

I told him I would be back tomorrow. I have two choices, provide him with something to convince him I can work without paying taxes or having an ssn, or sign the forms and later rescind them somehow.

[goldphoenix]

Perhaps a little more information on my citizenship may help me to help you to help me. (big smile)

I was delivered into my mother's arms in one of the 50 states of the union. My strawman was supposedly created at birth, however, was lost by the state (proof of birth by way of certificate was lost). So there is no record of my birth. However, my strawman acquired the ssn number as a minor. And I have used frns, post office, contracted in the past with government (both state and federal) for benefits, school loans, and have paid taxes in the past. In all respects I have always been treated as a U.S. citizen, as if the Codes applied to me, rather than as an American Citizen.

I have always believed myself to be a U.S. citizen until I stumbled upon this extraordinary site, and then realized that I am likely an American National or American Citizen (by birth, not by contract).

Having not filed for a few years (during this time I haven't bothered as the amount of wages I've made weren't enough for me to bother with) I have been told that I can mark "exempt" on these forms. Anyone know the truth of this?

I need to feed my family, and wonder if I should just go ahead and fill out the forms, and mark exempt. Any thoughts? Really need some help here, guys! You are the seasoned educated ones! I'm a beginner (only been studying heavily about 6 months in all aspects of the freedom movement).

Any ideas, etc. would be greatly appreciated!

Peace,

goldphoenix

[Ice]

Yes, you have a leg to stand on...


He said that if you got something from the SS that says you don't have to pay then you could stay... WELL... that kind of stuff is available all over the net... from the horses mouth!!


The next thing is to let him know that you are not a "U.S." citizen... but an "American" and that Americans are not required to have SS #'s AND by refusing to hire you on the claim that employees MUST HAVE an SS # is the same as violating EEOC&by refusing to hire you because of&your NATIONALITY. (Can you say "Discrimination"??)


Give the members some time to think... even though tomorrow racing at you like a speeding frieght train... and you may get some more input.


&

[goldphoenix]

>Yes, you have a leg to stand on...

>He said that if you got something from the SS that says you don't have to pay >then you could stay... WELL... that kind of stuff is available all over the net... >from the horses mouth!!

I think he wants to hear something from them himself (as opposed to taking the time to sit down and read over the applicable information). He even went so far as to say that if I had them (SSA) call him he'd be happy to set up a meeting with them to confirm it. What I'm concerned about is their (SSA and the employer's) confusion over me and my corporate strawman. After all, my strawman DOES have an ssn, though he has no BC.

>The next thing is to let him know that you are not a "U.S." citizen... but >an "American" and that Americans are not required to have SS #'s AND by >refusing to hire you on the claim that employees MUST HAVE an SS # is the >same as violating EEOC by refusing to hire you because of your >NATIONALITY. (Can you say "Discrimination"??)

I fear that I have contracted into U.S. citizenship unwittingly in the past. Is that possible? I have probably marked U.S. citizen box mistakenly on various forms in the past, being ignorant of the difference. However, I always thought that it takes more than that in order to become a citizen of the U.S., like some sort of oath or proclamation? Yes, it's pretty obvious I'm quite ignorant of all of this. It's one thing to read something and quite another to try to convince an employer of it. So I just told him I'd be back tomorrow with some answers (either from this forum, or me breaking down and signing the forms to feed my family).

He hired me for 3 hours, then fired me. He paid me cash, and had me sign a receipt and entered it into his computer (computer program sent by the government to the franchise) as outside labor.

On a side note, it was just killing me to fix all that delicious food, and even have some sitting there waiting for the end of the night when I could eat it. However, that was nipped in the bud over these forms I wouldn't sign. So I left with an empty stomach, and still have one (yes, I'm whining) (anxious face) (wink)

>Give the members some time to think... even though tomorrow racing at you >like a speeding frieght train... and you may get some more input.

Yes, you know exactly how I'm feeling!

Thank you, Ice!

[Ice]

the boss guy will hear it from SS... all ya gotta do is get it from them... And if he hears it from the SS -- it's going to be IN PRINT so he'll have to read it anyway.


Can anyone PROVE THAT YOU ARE A "U.S." citizen as opposed to being an AMERICAN?& If you showed that guy the definitions for "U.S. citizen"... I'll bet that he would agree with you on that one. But, he isn't the one that you're going to have to convince... this is one for the courts -- and if it is a huge corporation -- go for it!!


I'm sure that other members might lend you a hand with a suit of that kind... of course, they might want a percentage of your take -- win or lose.


&

[goldphoenix]

>the boss guy will hear it from SS... all ya gotta do is get it from them... And if >he hears it from the SS -- it's going to be IN PRINT so he'll have to read it >anyway.

I'm not sure what I'd do here, other than ask him to call them himself and ask if an American citizen has to have an ssn to work or if an American citizen has to pay social security taxes in order to work. And if he has my nom de guerre pulled up, I'm sure they'll tell him "I" have an ssn (if he asks).

>Can anyone PROVE THAT YOU ARE A "U.S." citizen as opposed to being an >AMERICAN? If you showed that guy the definitions for "U.S. citizen"... I'll bet >that he would agree with you on that one. But, he isn't the one that you're >going to have to convince... this is one for the courts -- and if it is a huge >corporation -- go for it!!

I don't know. If one can become a U.S. citizen by mistakenly marking a U.S. citizen box on a form, then yes. Otherwise, no. If one can become a U.S. citizen by accepting benefits through SS, or using a mailbox, or frns, etc. then yes. Otherwise, no. Etc., etc.

Again, not real sure how to proceed. I have a family that I have to feed Now. Is there some way to fill out the forms without destroying my chances of winning on this one?

On the company website, under Financial, it shows $30,000 Year to Date roughly, on the fiscal 2004. Last year was a year to date of $60,000. Their corporate office is in Texas, Dallas. They have franchises all over the place I guess. Website says it's a publicly traded company with it’s stock listed on the NASDAQ exchange. And currently operates more than 400 franchised restaurants in 20 states and 9 foreign countries. Is that "huge"?

>I'm sure that other members might lend you a hand with a suit of that kind... of >course, they might want a percentage of your take -- win or lose.

I'm not a greedy person. Finances have never been a major motivating factor in my life. I am interested in keeping my family fed and warm, though. In other words, I'd gladly share any resulting proceeds. At the same time, if there is some way to sign the forms so as to work for now, and still be able to bring suit, I'd prefer to do that, simply so I can feed my loved ones. I'm between a rock and a hard place, or so it feels.

[goldphoenix]

oh, yeah. I tried to tell him dob and ssn were against EEOC, and he said he didn't go by EEOC. He said he goes by what corporate tells him what to do. He then showed me a letter corporate gave him with requirements for employment. And wouldn't you know it. They want ssn, dob, and all tax forms filled out in order to employ. Funny thing is that I worked three hours before I was given this ultimatum, fill out the forms or take a hike.

[Ice]

I know you would like to work... I know you would like to keep that job... and here are your choices:


Fill out the forms as they require and submit yourself to the IRS's jurisdiction --


Or take a pass on the funds and see if you can't get a suit started against the corporation for wrongful termination, termination on grounds of discrimination and discriminatory corporate policy.


Heck of a choice... ain't it?& I hope that this thread is opening some eyes in regards to the strangle hold on Americans... and why so many people feel that it is inescapable.


A lot of eyes are opened when we deal with people in regards to these issues.& And we need to keep on as long as we can, as long as we are able, in order to open the eyes of the blind.


You can always take the job, fill out "exempt" on the W-4, that should buy you some time... but, you still have the SS thing to deal with also.& And maybe if you hang in there long enough you might open some eyes to the fraud that is being perpetrated on America... and that might just add more to our voice for change.


&

[goldphoenix]

>Fill out the forms as they require and submit yourself to the IRS's jurisdiction --

Is there anything I can place on the forms, such as "under duress" or something that will void that jurisdiction? I wonder if I already gave them jurisdiction years back when I sent in a 1040? Is their jurisdiction continuous or limited in some way? I understand that they are frauding the American people, and that makes their "jurisdiction" void to begin with, doesn't it?

>Or take a pass on the funds and see if you can't get a suit started against the >corporation for wrongful termination, termination on grounds of discrimination >and discriminatory corporate policy.

That's a big if when I have no money to pay the bills.

>Heck of a choice... ain't it? I hope that this thread is opening some eyes in >regards to the strangle hold on Americans... and why so many people feel >that it is inescapable.

Absolutely!

>A lot of eyes are opened when we deal with people in regards to these >issues. And we need to keep on as long as we can, as long as we are able, >in order to open the eyes of the blind.

I have thought about printing out the forms that are in the zip file on "no ssn" in the downloads section of this website. I'm not real sure which ones would be appropriate in this case though, as they all appear to apply in some way or another. If I can persuade him to allow me to work without supplying that information I would much rather do that. At the same time, I am told that this "voluntary" (W forms) contract can be cancelled following the signing, simply be informing the IRS that you are not a resident alien. If I were born in another state, would that make me a resident alien in this state?

>You can always take the job, fill out "exempt" on the W-4, that should buy you >some time... but, you still have the SS thing to deal with also. And maybe if >you hang in there long enough you might open some eyes to the fraud that is >being perpetrated on America... and that might just add more to our voice for >change.

This is true.

Do you mean hang in there long enough to open some eyes AFTER signing the W-4 "exempt"?

Thank you again, Ice!

[Ice]

yeah, you could put "under duress" on the form... it works well.


Also, you could use the W-8 substitute and the attachment that goes along with it... as well as the letter to the employer provided at familyguardian.


I know someone that has used this process... but not enough time has gone by to state a claim for total success.


And yes... I meant AFTER SECURING THE JOB -- and those you work with learning more truth from you.


Ice