taxation -vs- valid contract

[can-do-man]

This I posted on another forum.
Read it and tell me if you see any flaws in my logic.

The "income tax" IS legal. It is "Contract Law".
You willingly entered into a legal, binding contract with the Fed when you applied for a SS account.
The next question is, did you really?

What are some of the elements of a “legal, binding contract”?
1. Full *Disclosure
2. **Meeting of the minds

On one hand it is legal and binding because it is your responsibility to read, and *"understand" the terms of the contract before you sign it.

On the other hand,
1. if ALL of the terms are “NOT FULLY DISCLOSED" at the time of signing then it is not legal nor binding for reasons of *nondisclsure.
2. If there were no **”meeting of the minds” then there is no legal, binding contract.

* Blacks Law Dictionary 2nd Pocket Edition

Quote:
p. 207
disclosure
The act or process of making known something that was previously unknown; a revelation of facts.


Quote:
p. 479
nondisclsure
The failure or refusal to reveal something that either might be or is required to be revealed.


Quote:
p.732
understanding
3. An agreement, esp. Of an implied, or tacit nature.



**http://dictionary.law.com/

Quote:
meeting of the minds
n. when two parties to an agreement (contract) both have the same understanding of the terms of the agreement. Such mutual comprehension is essential to a valid contract. It is provable by the express provisions of a written contract, without reference to any statements or hidden thoughts outside the writing. There would not be a meeting of the minds if Bill Buyer said, "I'll buy all your stock," and he meant shares in a corporation, and Sam Seller said, "I'll sell all my stock to you," and meant his cattle.



Was there anybody from the IRS, Federal Reserve, or any other official(sic) agent of any of the concerned parties who sat down with you before you signed the application for the SS account/card who explained that your average expected income(sic) was borrowed into existence upon your birth therefore by signing the application you would be a slave to the bank which it was borrowed from, promising to repay this debt with interest?

If so, then that would have been disclosure of at least one of the terms of the contract via a meeting of the minds.

I think NOT on both counts.
Q
_________________
Having always been critical, and suspicious of my government my nonconformist life has led me to a confirmation of all my suspicions, and a pinnacle of understanding.
Now not only do I know there is something terribly wrong with my nation, and the system under which it is controlled, I now know what went wrong, where it went wrong, who caused it to go wrong, when they did it.
I also know that since this knowledge has befallen Me the responsibility of correcting that which went wrong is mine.

[Shoonra]

You begin with an error. Taxation is not part of contract law. In the US it is a category of law to itself, but there are elements in administrative law that are relevant.

By definition, taxation is not voluntary. People are able to minimize their exposure to taxation by careful (and lawful) planning and transactions.

[can-do-man]

Ok, so it isn't contract law, but was not the application for the S.S. acc. a contract in which the signer agrees thet s/he is a US C/citizen and is liable now to pay the tax or be subject to the penal clause for breach of contract (in other words non payment, not filing...)?

law.com
contract
1) n. an agreement with specific terms between two or more persons or entities in which there is a promise to do something in return for a valuable benefit known as consideration. Since the law of contracts is at the heart of most business dealings, it is one of the three or four most significant areas of legal concern and can involve variations on circumstances and complexities. The existence of a contract requires finding the following factual elements: a) an offer; b) an acceptance of that offer which results in a meeting of the minds; c) a promise to perform; d) a valuable consideration (which can be a promise or payment in some form); e) a time or event when performance must be made (meet commitments); f) terms and conditions for performance, including fulfilling promises; g) performance, if the contract is "unilateral". A unilateral contract is one in which there is a promise to pay or give other consideration in return for actual performance. (I will pay you $500 to fix my car by Thursday; the performance is fixing the car by that date.) A bilateral contract is one in which a promise is exchanged for a promise. (I promise to fix your car by Thursday and you promise to pay $500 on Thursday.) Contracts can be either written or oral, but oral contracts are more difficult to prove and in most jurisdictions the time to sue on the contract is shorter (such as two years for oral compared to four years for written). In some cases a contract can consist of several documents, such as a series of letters, orders, offers and counteroffers. There are a variety of types of contracts: "conditional" on an event occurring; "joint and several," in which several parties make a joint promise to perform, but each is responsible; "implied," in which the courts will determine there is a contract based on the circumstances. Parties can contract to supply all of another's requirements, buy all the products made, or enter into an option to renew a contract. The variations are almost limitless. Contracts for illegal purposes are not enforceable at law. 2) v. to enter into an agreement.

[rottweiler]

The whole system as implemented is fraudulent. Don't suffer from any illusions that there is some kind of justice in it and don't pay attention to the scribe Shoonra.

KJMatt.23

"1": Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

"2": Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

"3": All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

"4": For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

"5": But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

"6": And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

"7": And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

"8": But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

"9": And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

"10": Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

"11": But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

"12": And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

"13": But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

"14": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

"15": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"16": Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

"17": Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

"18": And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

"19": Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

"20": Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

"21": And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

"22": And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

"23": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

"24": Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

"25": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

"26": Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

"27": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

"28": Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

"29": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

"30": And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

"31": Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

"32": Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

"33": Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

"34": Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

"35": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

"36": Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

"37": O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

"38": Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

"39": For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Originally Posted by can-do-man

Ok, so it isn't contract law, but was not the application for the S.S. acc. a contract in which the signer agrees thet s/he is a US C/citizen and is liable now to pay the tax or be subject to the penal clause for breach of contract (in other words non payment, not filing...)?

[mrg]

Thanks Rottweiler for that.

Anyone with any Honor, "Christian," or not, should have no problem comprehending that one.

It is amazing how many levels on which one can comprehend the Word.

[FreeFromContract]

I enjoy reading what Shoonra has to say. It provides insight into how she and the D.C. gang of thugs think.

Originally Posted by rottweiler

The whole system as implemented is fraudulent. Don't suffer from any illusions that there is some kind of justice in it and don't pay attention to the scribe Shoonra.

KJMatt.23

"1": Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

"2": Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

"3": All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

"4": For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

"5": But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

"6": And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

"7": And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

"8": But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

"9": And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

"10": Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

"11": But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

"12": And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

"13": But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

"14": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

"15": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"16": Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

"17": Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

"18": And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

"19": Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

"20": Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

"21": And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

"22": And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

"23": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

"24": Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

"25": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

"26": Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

"27": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

"28": Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

"29": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

"30": And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

"31": Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

"32": Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

"33": Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

"34": Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

"35": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

"36": Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

"37": O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

"38": Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

"39": For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

[clarkee]

I might be wrong but here's my thoughts. In Texas, for a contract to be valid (Isn't applying for a SSN a contract/agreement?) capacity of the parties is one of the key elements of a binding contract. This is quoted from Blacks Law Dictionary, 8th Ed. REPRESENTATIVE CAPACITY - the position of one standing or acting for another, esp; through delegated authority. (an agent acting in a representative capacity for the principal).
(2) The power to create or enter into a legal relation under the same circumstances in which a normal person would have the power to create or enter into such a relation; specif., the satisfaction of a legal qualification, such as LEGAL AGE or SOUNDNESS OF MIND, that determines one's ability to sue or be sued, to enter into a binding contract, and the like.
My point is, I was 15 when I applied for a SS card back in 1972. At the time, the legal age in Texas was 18. How could I be held liable on anything that requires a SS number since I was under age when I received it. I surely was never told the consequences of having one because back then people didn't really question authority. It was basically the government that said you had to have one to work so we got one, no questions asked. If this is true, then yes, I agree with the theory about our birth certificates being registered with the Dept of Commerce but I think the ball starts rolling when you receive that SSN because now you are really in the sea of commerce meaning eligible to work. I don't see how SS gets away with trying to get the parents to apply for the newborn a SSN. I think thats a little under age and soundness of mind which would make it void from the beginning. I'm starting to believe all this crap begins when you first received that number. Now everyone knows who you are, the IRS etc.. I don't remember if I had to have a SSN for a Texas drivers license back then. I know one doesn't show up on my license but that doesn't mean anything, all they have to do is key in your license number and poof, there it is. Just my thoughts. Feedback very welcome.

[FreeFromContract]

Originally Posted by clarkee

I might be wrong but here's my thoughts. In Texas, for a contract to be valid (Isn't applying for a SSN a contract/agreement?) capacity of the parties is one of the key elements of a binding contract. This is quoted from Blacks Law Dictionary, 8th Ed. REPRESENTATIVE CAPACITY - the position of one standing or acting for another, esp; through delegated authority. (an agent acting in a representative capacity for the principal).
(2) The power to create or enter into a legal relation under the same circumstances in which a normal person would have the power to create or enter into such a relation; specif., the satisfaction of a legal qualification, such as LEGAL AGE or SOUNDNESS OF MIND, that determines one's ability to sue or be sued, to enter into a binding contract, and the like.
My point is, I was 15 when I applied for a SS card back in 1972. At the time, the legal age in Texas was 18. How could I be held liable on anything that requires a SS number since I was under age when I received it. I surely was never told the consequences of having one because back then people didn't really question authority. It was basically the government that said you had to have one to work so we got one, no questions asked. If this is true, then yes, I agree with the theory about our birth certificates being registered with the Dept of Commerce but I think the ball starts rolling when you receive that SSN because now you are really in the sea of commerce meaning eligible to work. I don't see how SS gets away with trying to get the parents to apply for the newborn a SSN. I think thats a little under age and soundness of mind which would make it void from the beginning. I'm starting to believe all this crap begins when you first received that number. Now everyone knows who you are, the IRS etc.. I don't remember if I had to have a SSN for a Texas drivers license back then. I know one doesn't show up on my license but that doesn't mean anything, all they have to do is key in your license number and poof, there it is. Just my thoughts. Feedback very welcome.

The reason the parents do it and get away with it are:
1. The parents must have a SSN to get that nice deduction off their taxes for dependents.
2. The parents are (in most cases) legal guardians of the child and may act in the interest of the child.

When it comes when someone applies for it on their own behalf and under the legal age I believe the validity of entering into an agreement can certainly be brought into question. Perhaps of more importance is the facts concerning when, as a minor, you entered into the agreement.

The reason I say that is I remember prior to the program to catalog newborns at birth via a SSN, the Feds spent a considerable amount of money promoting the propaganda that everyone must have a SSN to work. There was not and is not a law requiring someone to apply for a SSN and certainly not one concerning your right to exercise such a fundamental right as earning a living as a non-license worker.

This concept requiring a SSN to work was mostly driven from the employer side to the potential worker (employee). Sign up and if you get hurt at work or are caught up in the latest rounds of layoffs, you get these great benefits; workman's comp or unemployment! Whoo-hoo! What a deal!

However, if there is no law requiring one to sign up and the pitch made by the government or by the employer is that such a law exists, that constitutes fraud. Of course, none of this is ever in writing (that you are required to have a SSN before you work) as it is told directly to you by either the potential employer or another uninformed adult or friend that you must have a SSN to work. Well, being a 15 year old, did you trust what was being said to you or did you run home and turn on your computer and check it out online?

Oh, that's right, no home computers till the late 70's and the Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet. Did you run down to the local law library (if there was one were you lived) and look it up?

More importantly, now that you are at least 18 years of age, have you taken any steps to disassociate yourself from the SSN assigned to you for cause?

Anyway, that should give you some things to think about.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

You begin with an error. Taxation is not part of contract law. In the US it is a category of law to itself, but there are elements in administrative law that are relevant.

Are you referring to Title 26?

[clarkee]

Originally Posted by FreeFromContract

The reason the parents do it and get away with it are:
1. The parents must have a SSN to get that nice deduction off their taxes for dependents.
2. The parents are (in most cases) legal guardians of the child and may act in the interest of the child.

When it comes when someone applies for it on their own behalf and under the legal age I believe the validity of entering into an agreement can certainly be brought into question. Perhaps of more importance is the facts concerning when, as a minor, you entered into the agreement.

The reason I say that is I remember prior to the program to catalog newborns at birth via a SSN, the Feds spent a considerable amount of money promoting the propaganda that everyone must have a SSN to work. There was not and is not a law requiring someone to apply for a SSN and certainly not one concerning your right to exercise such a fundamental right as earning a living as a non-license worker.

This concept requiring a SSN to work was mostly driven from the employer side to the potential worker (employee). Sign up and if you get hurt at work or are caught up in the latest rounds of layoffs, you get these great benefits; workman's comp or unemployment! Whoo-hoo! What a deal!

However, if there is no law requiring one to sign up and the pitch made by the government or by the employer is that such a law exists, that constitutes fraud. Of course, none of this is ever in writing (that you are required to have a SSN before you work) as it is told directly to you by either the potential employer or another uninformed adult or friend that you must have a SSN to work. Well, being a 15 year old, did you trust what was being said to you or did you run home and turn on your computer and check it out online?

Oh, that's right, no home computers till the late 70's and the Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet. Did you run down to the local law library (if there was one were you lived) and look it up?

More importantly, now that you are at least 18 years of age, have you taken any steps to disassociate yourself from the SSN assigned to you for cause?

Anyway, that should give you some things to think about.

No, I did not run to the local law library. It wasn't that big of a deal then. When told we responded, no questions asked. As to have I done anything to diassociate myself with SS, no. Does that mean I want do it in the near future, no. I still believe that it is still something to be brought up