should I fill out a w-4

[cartier4672]

I'm about to be hired for a new company. I've been reading about the diffrent tax laws as of recent. I need to know should I fill out a w-4, and if not would should I give to my employer since they require it. My understanding of this is this allows your employer to basically become the tax collector on part of the IRS.

[David Merrill]

That is right. But you are probably on probation for now and will lose your new job if you start scaring your new employer - or morelike an IRS agent starts scaring Payroll about hiring you.

http://friends-n-family-research.inf...ublicMoney.wmv

Hopefully you can cash your own paychecks. Use this non-endorsement stamp or write in the verbiage with every paycheck. Then fill out a 1040 Form and include your right by law to redeem FRNs in lawful money at the original transaction when you get your cash.

Otherwise, if your new employer insists on direct deposit, put the verbiage on your Signature Card at the bank and also above your authorization card with your employer. Order up a published copy of the law (attached) by calling (719) 520-6200.

You should get a full refund of your Withholdings because your taxable income over the next tax year will be $0 reported on your 2007 1040 Form. Be warned that the IRS and Congress have retaliated against hundreds of people doing this by right with financial terrorism. They have jacked up the penalty for filing a frivolous 1040 by ten times - to $5,000.

And they have issued these instructions for the IRS agents to append that penalty:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-07-30.pdf

So be sure you understand you are redeeming FRNs in lawful money by right.

I debated this with a Treasury agent in CID named AndyK and he revealed like the Memorandum attached that the only ammo in the IRS arsenal about this is the presumption by lawful money you must mean gold or silver coin. What you mean is US Notes in the form of FRNs. Keep that straight in your own mind and you should be okay with your new employer.

But if you think putting the verbiage on your authorization card will get you fired or even raise a stink with the company attorney, don't do it. You can prove bad faith at anytime in the future on the lawful money redemption. Just try to get paychecks you take to the bank. Avoid the Direct Deposit of your paychecks. There shouldn't be a lot of pressure about that and if there is, open a bank account using the verbiage on the authorizing Signature Card.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[fulltitle]

Originally Posted by cartier4672

I'm about to be hired for a new company. I've been reading about the diffrent tax laws as of recent. I need to know should I fill out a w-4, and if not would should I give to my employer since they require it. My understanding of this is this allows your employer to basically become the tax collector on part of the IRS.

Without Prejudice.
If you cant do the non-endorsement on the authorization form, perhaps you can send a notice to the bank later advising them of your intent to add the verbiage and therefore to modify the direct deposit authorization form.

[Dillon Hunt]

SPECIAL RESPONSE Date ___________________

WITHHOLDING EXEMPTION CERTIFICATE by AGREEMENT

Consistent with section 3402(n) of the Internal Revenue Code ("IRC") shown herewith, I do hereby certify / agree as to being EXEMPT by law from all federal income tax withholdings because:

A. No liability for income tax has knowingly been incurred by me under subtitle A in the past year, or in previous years.

B. No liability for income tax will knowingly be incurred by me under subtitle A in the current year, or in future years.

The only statutes which impose a specific liability for federal income taxes imposed by subtitle A are those which are found in the provisions applicable to withholding agents, as itemized in the definition of "Withholding Agent" at IRC 7701(a)(16).

I do not admit to being a Withholding Agent nor a United States Government Employee/Federal Employee. I do not admit deriving taxable income under federal municipal law (IRC) and I am therefore classified as a “non covered” worker under IRC, sec. 3101. I do not admit to having been made liable for any such tax. I have never been issued any lawful assessment for any such tax. I deny knowingly, intentionally and/or willingly signing any maritime or admiralty contract or obligation.

Upon your receipt of this Withholding Exemption Certificate your organization(s) is ordered to effective immediately, stop all federal, state, local and social security tax withholdings and also Agrees not to retaliate against me by terminating my employment, except for good cause and not at-will. (I DON’T THINK YOU CAN BE FIRED FOR OBEYING THE IRS CODE)

I do not give your organization(s) my authority to allow third party interlopers into any of our Agreements. I do not volunteer for public good or acknowledge jurisdiction or any compelled government interest. I demand all and do not waive any of My unalienable / Fundamental Rights, Immunities and/or Privileges.


I, ______________________________________ under the laws of the Constitution for these

united States of America, without the "United States" (federal government), certify/agree that the above statements are true and correct, to the best of my current information, knowledge and belief. Sui Juris - All Rights Reserved - No Liability Assumed - Without Recourse

You Agree and Understand, the act of taking any of my Property without my Consent / a signed W-4 and/or without Due Process is a Crime. You Agree and Understand, any of these acts leave your organization(s) open to a Criminal Complain. You Stipulate and Agree to being Fully Liable for any such Actions. (OTHER TERMS AND CONDITIONS MIGHT BE ADDED) make up your own.
You Agree, This withholding exemption certificate terminates at the end of this year. etc.

Your property is not just your pay but your private and personal info also.


Attachment

Title 26, Internal Revenue Code, section 3402(n):

(n) Employees Incurring No Income Tax Liability. -- Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an employer shall not be required to deduct and withhold any tax under this chapter upon a payment of wages to an employee if there is in effect with respect to such payment a withholding exemption certificate (in such form and containing such other information as the Secretary may prescribe) furnished to the employer by the employee
certifying that the employee --

(1) incurred no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his preceding taxable year, and

(2) anticipates that he will incur no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his current taxable year.

The Secretary shall by regulations provide for the coordination of the provisions of this subsection with the provisions of subsection (f).


Title 26, Internal Revenue Code, Sec. 3402(p)(2).

An AGREEMENT under section 3402(p) shall be effective for such period as the employer and employee MUTUALLY AGREE upon. However, EITHER THE EMPLOYER OR THE EMPLOYEE MAY TERMINATE THE AGREEMENT (of withholding) PRIOR TO THE END OF SUCH PERIOD BY FURNISHING A SIGNED WRITTEN NOTICE TO THE OTHER. Unless the employer and employee AGREE to an earlier withholding termination date, the notice shall be effective with respect to the first payment of an amount in respect of which the AGREEMENT is in effect which is made on or after the first "status determination date" that occurs at least 30 days after the date on which the notice is furnished.

This regulation states that the AGREEMENT "shall be effective for such period as the employer and employee MUTUALLY AGREE UPON", and that either the employer or the employee "MAY TERMINATE THE WITHHOLDING AGREEMENT prior to the end of such period by furnishing a signed written notice to the other." Therefore, it is obvious that the withholding must be REQUESTED by the employee, must be AGREED TO by the employer, and MAY BE TERMINATED BY EITHER BY GIVING WRITTEN NOTICE TO THE OTHER. The regulations merely state that the notice terminating withholding must be a signed written notice -- no particular form is ever required!



Any comments will be considered. Not legal advice but only for debate and educational purposes.

[Notorial dissent]

Unless your employer’s payroll department is totally brain dead, they will tell you “Nice try, NO cookie,” and hand you a W4 and tell you to complete it and sign it. They are required by law to do this, and a homebrew exemption certificate is not going to fly.

If you persist, they will do one of the following: terminate you on the spot as being more trouble than you could possibly be worth, or file you as Single and 0 exemptions, which means you will get the maximum taken out of each pay check. This too is in the regulations, that if an employee either refuses or fails to file a W4 then it shall be entered at Single and 0,

Bear in mind that employers are subject to fine if they do not have W4's from all employees, so they will insist on it being done and done properly. It is not voluntary.

[FreeFromContract]

Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

Unless your employer’s payroll department is totally brain dead, they will tell you “Nice try, NO cookie,” and hand you a W4 and tell you to complete it and sign it. They are required by law to do this, and a homebrew exemption certificate is not going to fly.

If you persist, they will do one of the following: terminate you on the spot as being more trouble than you could possibly be worth, or file you as Single and 0 exemptions, which means you will get the maximum taken out of each pay check. This too is in the regulations, that if an employee either refuses or fails to file a W4 then it shall be entered at Single and 0,

Bear in mind that employers are subject to fine if they do not have W4's from all employees, so they will insist on it being done and done properly. It is not voluntary.

Got any cites from Title 26 to back this up?

[ezrhythm]

Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

They are required by law to do this, and a homebrew exemption certificate is not going to fly.

Bear in mind that employers are subject to fine if they do not have W4's from all employees, so they will insist on it being done and done properly. It is not voluntary.

WRONG! They are only required to ASK you to fill out a W-4.

You may also sign the W-4, "Refusal For Cause".

[Dillon Hunt]

MAXIMS OF LAW

To him consenting no injury is done.
He who consents cannot receive an injury.
Consent removes or obviates a mistake.
One who wills a thing to be or to be done cannot complain of that thing as an injury.
The agreement of the parties overcomes or prevails against the law.
He who approves cannot reject.
Agreement takes the place of the law: the express understanding of parties supersedes such understanding as the law would imply.
Manner and agreement overrule the law.
Certain legal consequences are attached to the voluntary act of a person / corporation.
It is immaterial whether a person / corporation gives assent by words or by acts and deeds.
A fiction is a rule of law that assumes something which is or may be false as true.
Where truth is, fiction of law does not exist.
There is no fiction without law.
Fictions arise from the law, and not law from fictions
Fiction is against the truth, but it is to have truth.
In a fiction of law, equity always subsists. (Something to tell a magistrate in any DMV case, if you don't have a licence.)

The IRS and your employer are fictions of law.

[Dillon Hunt]

Title 26, Internal Revenue Code, section 3402(n):

(n) Employees Incurring No Income Tax Liability. -- Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an employer shall not be required to deduct and withhold any tax under this chapter upon a payment of wages to an employee if there is in effect with respect to such payment a withholding exemption certificate (in such form and containing such other information as the Secretary may prescribe) furnished to the employer by the employee certifying that the employee --

(1) incurred no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his preceding taxable year, and

(2) anticipates that he will incur no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his current taxable year.

_____________________________

I don't see where the employer has to furnish any w-4 to the employee, Do you?

I could be wrong but I don't see it.

[Dillon Hunt]

You can agree with you conditions added or R4C it is up to you. Either should work !!! I like the agreement because I can change the condition of employment from At Will to for Good Cause Only for employment termination. etc. Remember you are just following the (law) IRS Code. Retaliation is against U.S. Labor Law.