ssn, w-4's, and employment

[goldphoenix]

I have a question I hope someone can answer me for sure. I am attempting to stop using my ssn number, as I have been learning more about it's use. I feel and believe that it is against my religious beliefs. I am seeking employment, and applied at a job where I allowed them to use the number just once to do a consumer check on me. I told them that for religious reasons/personal beliefs that I did not want the number to go any farther than that. I allowed them that one violation of privacy, as I would have been barred from employment otherwise. I also told them I didn't wish to fill out w-4's, and that it was voluntary to do so. I had the appropriate codes faxed to human resources, who are going to supposedly run it by the head honcho. I was told by a district manager today that I HAD to fill out these forms, etc. Before I brought this issue up I was told that I had the job, however, after I brought the issue up I was told that the paperwork to employ me hadn't been sent in yet. My question is, can I be barred from unemployment because I don't wish to use the number? They are claiming that they do everything through this number. Am I able to provide them with some sort of alternative number to use? Any comments, suggestions, recommendations, etc. would be gratefully welcomed!


Agape,


goldphoenix

this all depends on a lot of things. firstly, what should have been done is to get a firm offer in hand first about them hiring you. Then, when it gets to the point where you fill out the paperwork, then you bring up religious objection. Anything they do after you get the firm offer in writing is prima face evidence of discrimination and you will win a landslide discrimanation case with equal employment opportunity. Our problem has always been fighting them. Dont fight, use their law against them. Put them into dishonor. Now, since you didnt get the firm offer, ask their head honcho to put in writing that they will not hire you without it and sue them.

[goldphoenix]

Thank you kgod!


I&did ask&if I was hired before I brought the issue up (I had provided my ssn to do a consumer check and this is why I brought it up before w-4's were presented, since I wanted that number deleted out of their systems, for their own good and mine). She told me yes, I was hired.&However, she backtracked once I brought the issue up, and said she hadn't actually sent the employment papers in yet. She was cool about the issue and wanted to know more, and the Human Resources wanted to know more as well. The district manager, however, was of the opinion it was mandatory to provide ssn and w-4's.


Should I perhaps email or call their human resources? The boss of the manager (over the phone) okayed me being hired. The paperwork had not been done yet. Just the consumer check, urine test, and verbally told I was hired. The district manager said I HAD to have the number and that I HAD to file W-4's. I explained it was voluntary, provided USC and IRC codes backing it. They faxed it to Human Resources. The district manager told me they would await a decision but not to hold my breath. He said it could take months.


I'll keep in mind the information you've provided, Kgod, and act on it! Please feel free to share any other info or suggestions!

[Jerseee]

Goldphoenix,


bold move and way to stand your ground.& I just wish i had known of all this prior to my employment.& moving right along, i thought about something (as i usually do), and that is.......do not argue.


If the head honcho says you have to fill out the forms, why not ask him to prove that you have to fill them out.& Do not refuse to fill them out---just state that you will gladly fill them out once they prove that YOU have to fill them out.


Do not expose all of your knowledge just yet...you will need it when they bring some bogus rule or code stating that you do.


Always make them prove their claim, never give up your knowledge freely, never argue, and remain in honor.& this will strengthen your case in the long run.

[goldphoenix]

Thankyou, Jersee!


I will add that technique in with the mix! I'm looking for work so I'm sure this will all occur again! I guess I'm so used to having to prove my innocence as opposed to being proven guilty that I got it all backwards.


Here's another off the wall question related to this one. Black's law dictionary defines religion as: Man's relation to Divinity, to reverence, worship, obedience, and submission to mandates and precepts of supernatural or superior beings.& In its broadest sense includes all forms of belief in the existence of superior beings exercising power over human beings by volition, imposing rules of conduct, with future rewards and punishments.& Bond uniting man to God, and a virtue whose purpose is to render God worship due him as source of all being and principle of all government of things.& Nikulnikoff v. Archbishop, etc., of Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church, 142 Misc. 894, 255 N.Y.S. 653, 663.


I'm wondering if all people have the unalienable right to religious belief. Or if it is exclusive to a certain group of people. Anyone know for sure? In that I'm wondering how the United States sees this issue, as opposed to how it is defined in Black's.

[Jerseee]

Goldphoenix,

Thank you. You should make that technique a way of life--its honorable.

Now, I do not subscribe to religion. That is why I do not post in the religion part of this forum.

Religion is man made--god is natural. God is not that ambigous IMHO. God is pure. Righteous. Forthcoming. Honorable. Square-dealing. And a host of other accolades. Religion is the oldest form of government and the major reasons for war, rape, murder, theft, indencency, trickery and a whole gambit of other attrocities commited agains mankind (other than money). However, the teachings are good.

This is not meant to offend but, to inform of my position. If you critically read the definition of religion that you posted. You will find the answer to your last question and proof of all the things that I just said about religion.

To help you understand what I am saying---please remember that there are 2 United States...which one are you referring to? This is an example the heinousness I am speaking of.

[goldphoenix]

Jersee,


You're welcome and thank you!


I'm not offended and I appreciate you sharing your position.


I'm referring to the corporate United States, I believe. EEOC is a part of the corporate United States, isn't it? Does anyone here happen to know?

if you examine the "required i-9 form", you will find that it is only for agricultural employers and the required documents can be other documents than a drivers license and social security card, so, the government right there in a sly way is admitting you dont need a social security number for employment. the number is only for if you want credit for benefits from social security, not as a requirement for employment. get a copy of&US&Title 42sec 666 and give a potential employer a copy and tell them you dont use the mark of the beast.& http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com/666a.htm

I seriously doubt you will be hired *goldphoenix*.& Why should they hire you when they can very easily hire someone else who will&gladly give them their SSN, no questions asked.&


And if your employer agrees with you, IRS may very well start looking at the employer's own books. Yes,&just because the&employer agrees with you, the&taxprotestor, IRS will&start suspecting they are doing this for others, and what employer wants the IRS hanging around, auditing their books?& Employers view people like you& more trouble than you are worth.&


IRS will not provide&your employer immunity if you sue them, but you will not likely win if you sue them anyway, given the fact that you had no&contract to work for them.& Employment nowadays is 'at will', meaning, it's voluntary... they can hire and fire you for whatever reason, and you can quit&for whatever reason.&


Sorry to give you the bad news, but if you want the job, give them the number. Find another way to get your money back from the tax man.&


Jobs&are getting scarce, and, unless you enjoy&job hunting, give them the number and be happy you can pay your bills.


The SSN is a harsh reality-- it shouldn't be that way, but it is, especially for those who&rely&on a&j.o.b. & Even the most invisible, private&person, from time to time, has to use the number.& You can't get rid of the number so&use to your advantage--until you are financially independent. And stop perceiving&the number&as&evil.The number is here to stay.& I don't&like it either, but&SSNs&will&be&here WAY after you and I are&dead and gone-- so quit fighting it,&sit back, relax, and&enjoy the&show. &

[Ice]

It is attitudes like yours that have got us in this mess in the first place.& If you don't ACT then NOTHING will change.


There is one thing that FOR SURE will not keep this country free... and that is people without the courage to make an attempt to live by the truth... or the true law of the land.


You can hide your head in the sand if you want to.& There are plenty others that will stand up for true freedom.


&