So get this.........

[rottweiler]

If you saw a US citizen using Euro's on TV in France would that make him a European or Frenchman or his he still a US citizen? Naturalization is a process one follows to become a citizen and simply using that companies currency alone is not going to accomplish that.

The question a chancellor in the chancery should ask is whether you have a license to buy his companies UCC-1 securities or not. If so you are in his jurisdiction.

Why is it when you are in the living room you are a American but when you are standing over the toilet European?

Originally Posted by tuckerl

I saw some Amish people on TV. They were in a general store buying supplies with federal reserve notes.

[tuckerl]

I’m just saying I saw Amish people using Federal Reserve notes. I don’t offer an explanation nor do I ask for one. It just seems to me that maybe they are not as sovereign as a lot of people think if they have to use the same currency as everyone else.

[Freedomless]

Agreeing with most of what has been stated, I believe that when the supposedly binding information has not been divulged, when the contrcat was signed, it is VOID and NULL. (non-binding)

Correct me if I am wrong.

[PANICPASS]

Originally Posted by joseph sugarman

Dear Panicpass,

Property can have more than just a tangible form. Property can have an intangible form. A person's knowledge is a form of intangible property. A person's labor is a form of intangible property that may be exchanged for a tangible result.

There is no lien on your labor. Without a lien they cannot levy/garnish. That's what I mean by labor is not property. To take my labor without my permission is to say you have a lien. Show me the lien.

[rottweiler]

If I damaged someone else I should be subject to lose some rights in a equal fashion including the possibility of losing my right to life itself.

Under the Commandments if I accused you of say injuring me or my property by a act of negligence on your part we would go before the Levitical Priesthood in the Temple and they might decide you owe me something in compensation. If you can't pay the judgement I can now pierce your ear and you would be my slave until the debt was paid or 6 years went by. At that time if you wanted to remain my slave I would pierce your other ear and you would be my slave for life or until the Grand Jubilee. While I was your master you would be entitled to certain privileges and immunities such as food and shelter and otherwise no abuse. If you got uppity and decided you didn't want to work you could be punished.

Check out the old homes in the countryside built before the federal reserve and see that they are much smaller generally. That's because people couldn't get loans for more than 6 years back then. After the federal reserve people got loaded up with mortgages and registered their property and lost their land during the depression. A friend of mine's grandfather owned all the land of a huge local county park but could not keep it because the taxes were too high. Too bad the guy was a ignorant farmer or my friend could afford to buy a round of drinks for us once and awhile.

So your labor is something that is your property but it can be taken from you under certain circumstances of your own doing. If you volunteer to do business in a corporate capacity Congress can dictate whatever they want to that corporation. Since you have agreed to be surety for the principal you are subject to those dictates in your corporate capacity.

Under the Roman Civil Law you can become surety for a strawman that is like a slave. The flesh and blood can become free again but the stranger within will always be above you as long as it is in you. You can lawfully refuse to be surety any more but it must be done in a positive manner such as a cancellutura. Then if let's say you are being charged with a "crime" like failure to file it would go away because the naturalized person strawman of the US no longer exists!

Originally Posted by PANICPASS

Labor is not property. If it was you could put a lien on it. You can only put a lien on property, and labor is not property. Labor is your knowledge, your skill. It is not a THING.

[rottweiler]

But you just contradicted yourself. The simple fact that some Amish people flashed some FRN's means nothing by itself. The thing you should look for is evidence that the Amish have licenses to buy UCC-1's. Do they have SSN/TIN's? If they do that is evidence that they use a strawman that is subject to Congress. Do they use insurance, mortgages, credit cards, checking accounts, voter registration, public school, licenses, etc? If they do they can buy UCC-1's like willful failure to file.

Originally Posted by tuckerl

I’m just saying I saw Amish people using Federal Reserve notes. I don’t offer an explanation nor do I ask for one. It just seems to me that maybe they are not as sovereign as a lot of people think if they have to use the same currency as everyone else.

[rottweiler]

The binding information has been divulged. It has just been buried in piles and piles of law books.

If your strawman signs up for the military who of any authority besides you is going to listen if you claim the recuiter lied to you? You know recuiters lie their asses off just like attornies/politicians do. It is your job to read the contract and understand it. This is not to say you don't have redemption, your rights are unalienable and just waiting for you to cancel those color of law contracts.

Originally Posted by Freedomless

Agreeing with most of what has been stated, I believe that when the supposedly binding information has not been divulged, when the contrcat was signed, it is VOID and NULL. (non-binding)

Correct me if I am wrong.

[rottweiler]

They can if there is no court to petition that has jurisdiction or you don't have more firepower than them. If someone commits a crime in the US and flees overseas to another company without a extradition treaty that someone is going scot free unless the US will risk using their superior firepower on that company.

What the IRS does is stealing, we have no difference of opinion there. But since you are doing business as a strawman you need a savings to suitors clause to hold them to account.

Originally Posted by PANICPASS

There is no lien on your labor. Without a lien they cannot levy/garnish. That's what I mean by labor is not property. To take my labor without my permission is to say you have a lien. Show me the lien.

[PANICPASS]

Originally Posted by rottweiler

They can if there is no court to petition that has jurisdiction or you don't have more firepower than them. If someone commits a crime in the US and flees overseas to another company without a extradition treaty that someone is going scot free unless the US will risk using their superior firepower on that company.

What the IRS does is stealing, we have no difference of opinion there. But since you are doing business as a strawman you need a savings to suitors clause to hold them to account.

I'm talking specifically about withholding from your pay before they have a lien on your pay. The Withholding Certificate authorizes them to take from your pay without a lien. I realize they sometimes do take without your permission, but that is totally illegal.

[rottweiler]

You keep telling me there is no lien and I keep telling you it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because you don't know how to do anything about it and they know it.

The courts juridiction is limited to do anything about it until the IRS and 3rd parties like the employers who transfer what's in your account into the IRS' account waive their sovereign immunity.

Article III. - The Judicial Branch
Section 1 - Judicial powers

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a COMPENSATION THAT SHALL NOT BE DIMINISHED during their Continuance in Office.

Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials

The judicial Power shall extend to all case, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to ALL CASES OF ADMIRALTY AND MARITIME JURISDICTION; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.


Only the Article III judiciary has the power to decide if that seizure was a legitimate process and there are no Article III courts! The way Congress gets around that is the remedy I told you about in the "Removal of Lien" thread. The district courts must first get a waiver of immunity by the maritime lienors otherwise they can not go behind the seizure and decide if it is legit or not.

Read these quotes from AreYouLostAt'C' and if you keep in mind that there is no Article III judiciary you will understand how the IRS gets away with it.

"The Supreme Court often quotes Benedict on Admiralty, and it seems that if the highest court in the land quotes from it, then we should take a look.

1 Benedict (6th Edition) section 17, p. 28:" As no court other than a court of admiralty can enforce, maritime liens, no other court can displace, discharge or subordinate them. Neither the State courts nor
the United States courts on their common law, equity and bankruptcy sides can divest, transfer to proceeds or adjudicate the maritime liens uriless the
maritime -lienors voluntarily submit themselves to the jurisdiction."

See 2 Benedict (6th Edition), section 275,pg. 119, 120: "But where a party discovers that … he has had no proper notice... and has thereby been deprived of property; or where there has been fraud of any kind … so that no regular remedy is left him, he may obtain redress by filing a libel of review. The subsequent proceedings will be the same as in any suit and the decree of the court will be such as equity demands. There is no corresponding provision in the Civil Rules.”

There is no legal way the IRS can get anything from you without you either giving it to them or without a court order. That alone won't stop them obviously. You must know how they are getting away with it.

Originally Posted by PANICPASS

I'm talking specifically about withholding from your pay before they have a lien on your pay. The Withholding Certificate authorizes them to take from your pay without a lien. I realize they sometimes do take without your permission, but that is totally illegal.