Removal of Lien

[ThomPaine]

Almost a year ago the IRS filed a lien against the corporate me in the county where I reside. The lien was not filed correctly and several of these issues have been discussed with the county clerk. Like many, she is scared to death of the IRS and basically said, the docs come in and we do what they say to do. I have written to the IRS and demanded that the lien be removed, listing numerous reasons and have not received a response. I do not own any property in my name and dont keep much in my local bank, but its one of those things that just bothers me.

So after a bit of searching I have come up with several options.

1) Go back to the county and go as high as I can with them demanding to know why they accepted an IRS lien against me with improper procedures, verbiage, etc.

2) Hire an atty and go after the IRS criminally and/or civilly for damages and removal of the lien.

OR

3) I am open to suggestions and ideas, as I have never had to deal with a lien before.

I have no hopes that the IRS will do the right thing and follow the law, admit their mistake and remove the lien easily. So I have several options. Get the lien removed and call it a day or make a big huge deal out of it, rub thier face in it and rub the county's face in it and show them that they are all a bunch of myrmidons that dont know what the hell they are doing..

thanks

THOM

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

Originally Posted by ThomPaine

Almost a year ago the IRS filed a lien against the corporate me in the county where I reside.

Actually, they probably didn't file any lien. They probably just filed a "Notice" of lien.
Here are some links to help in your research:
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/today/...rt/sheriff.htm
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%2...ce_of_lien.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/Lawme...337504999d8132
Strickland v. General Building and Masonry Contractors, Inc., 22 N.C. App. 729, 207 S.E.2d 399 (1974)

Sincerely,
Zach Doty
www.FightingForLiberty.org

[David Merrill]

After thirty days it becomes an effective lien. However you can remove the lien if you are working with a broker or realtor who will move the property before an IRS agent can publish a new Notice and cure it.

See attachment.

[rottweiler]

Terminating IRS 668 Notice of Lien
The proper sequence of events:

1. Call your Secretary of States office and find out the cost of a CERTIFIED UCC 11. Be sure to get a certified one. There'll be a fee of about seventeen dollars. Use a U.S. postal money order. There is a copy of a letter used for requesting the UCC 11 search included in this info packet.

2. While you're waiting for your Certified UCC 11 to show up in the mail, use your time wisely. Go to your county registrar of deeds' office and conduct a thorough search for 668s against you. Enlist the help of the deputy registrars as much as possible. Have them generate copies of whatever you want to terminate — and be sure to get legible copies. You need to be able to read the serial numbers on the 668 notices. Have them write the book number and page number on each copy if it isn't there. Then double-check it yourself. You must have the serial number and the county's book and page number for each notice you plan to terminate. It doesn't hurt a thing to engage in friendly conversation with the deputy registrars. You won't be doing battle with them and you just might gain an ally.
3. On your way out you can make the trip worth the gas money by stopping at the county clerk's office and getting a copy of the registrar's oath of office and bond. You may need these later, the amount of resistance you get from the clerk, and their staff will be good training for you. Do not ask for anything. Tell them you "want a copy of the registrar of deeds' oath of office and bond". If they ask why, tell them it's a matter of public record and you want copies of them. DO NOT ASK! If they say they don't think they have them, just tell them the oaths and bonds are on file in their office and that you'll wait while they look. Once they figure out you're not going anywhere and you know the oaths and bonds are there, the mood will change and they'll get you copies of what you want. Remember to thank them, after all, you got what you wanted and probably had a little fun.

4. Wait till you have your certified UCC 11 in your hand, - and then call the Secretary of State's office again. Ask to talk to someone about UCC form 3 — tell him or her how you intend to use it at the county level to terminate an unfounded financial statement against you. If there is a separate phone number for the UCC division, or some such thing, get that number. That's the one you need with you when you're at the registrar's office filing your UCC 3. I suggest being very courteous to everyone at the Secretary of State's office. They can be very helpful. If the person you're dealing with seems to be helpful, ask whom you're speaking with. Write it down. Do not talk over these people. Just ask simple questions and let them explain it in detail. If they don't, suggest having the registrar call them with their questions, you should bring it up. Just ask if it would be alright for the registrar from your county to call them on such and such a day, because you suspect they'll have a question or two. You'll get your UCC 3 recorded with or without the Secretary of State's help but you'll feel better knowing they're just a phone call away.
5. Before writing anything on the UCC 3 form that came with this packet, you must realize that you need one form for each notice you want to terminate. The local library is usually a great place to get copies made; they have the best machines. Fill out your form or forms according to the sample. In section 1A, identify the document you want terminated — IRS serial number as seen on the 668 — and the county recorder's book number and page number. Drop down to Line 2 and put an "X" in the box next to word "terminate". Nothing else is required, but the registrar will be a little less shaky if you include your name and address at the top as shown on the sample. DO NOT write anything on line 9, but study it closely and you will learn the power of the UCC. Yes, debtors can terminate financial statements recorded against them. DO NOT fill out line 9! You'll notice there's no place for you to sign and notarize. UCC 3 does not require it, and don't let anyone at the county level talk you into it either. After all, those 668 you're looking at weren't signed and notarized. You'll probably get to debate this point with the registrar soon. Don't worry — you'll win. Just remember to bring the phone number and hopefully the name of a knowledgeable and helpful person at the Secretary's office.

[rottweiler]

6. What to bring - The Checklist.
At this point you should have your certified UCC 11, your UCC 3 form or forms filled out as the sample, your 668s from your search at the registrar's office, and the name and phone number of someone at the Secretary of State's office. Put all this stuff inside a folder and write that phone number on the inside. Bring a witness. You don't want to get arrested. These folks are not going to make up any stories about your conduct if you bring a witness. Pick one who will make a good impression, and stay out of jail. You should also have copies of the registrar's oath and bond in your possession, but don't bring them with you. They will only be needed if you are forced to go to plan "B". Another important thing you'll need is attitude. Like you did at the clerk's office, only more. You might feel like you've gone a few more rounds when you're done with the registrar. I say pray. Ask the Almighty for the strength, the courage, and the wisdom you'll need to do well. Then go do it.
7. Now to the registrar's office. When you're asked if they can help you, tell them, "I want these forms recorded." DO NOT ASK! After reading your UCC 3 forms you'll be met with a long string of attempts at citing law. All of which you can handle —probably something like this: I don't think I can record these: Sure, you can. But they're not filled out: They are filled out the way the Secretary of State told me to. You can't release a lien with these: Let's just record them and see what happens. Only the IRS can release liens: I am not here to release liens. There are no liens against me. I'm here to have these notices of liens terminated because they were improperly recorded. As you can see by the Secretary of State's search, there are no liens against me. Well that's because the Liens were filed here, but there really should be something at the Secretary of State's office, too: Right, there would be if a lien existed, but there is no lien. Well I have them right here: No, you have notices that state that there is a lien. Real liens have docket numbers and court clerk stamps and judges' signatures — they are the result of court decisions. The notices you've recorded state that there is a lien, but I've just proved to you that there is no lien. Well it doesn't seem right that you can release your own lien: It's not right to record a notice of something that doesn't exist. These forms aren't notarized; these notices you recorded aren't notarized either. The IRS doesn't have to be notarized because they're federal. Well we're not in the fed, we're in a state and this state form is the law we're under. UCC 3s do not require signatures or notarizing. Just record them. But if I did that, it would release the liens. The forms say terminate. We can't terminate anything for you: Sure, you can. That's what you do here, right. Then do it. I won't release these liens without the IRS release: Yes, you will. You can't release your own liens: I'm doing it, and you're helping. Look, I'll make it easy on you. Just call the Secretary of State and ask what you should do. Here's the phone number — they're expecting you to call. Once you're at this point, you've got it pretty well wrapped up. The form gets filed and the computer program generates certificates called "Release of Lien". Be sure to stick around while all the typing is being done. Don't settle for their word that it is recorded correctly. Get the release in your hand before you go anywhere. They should record a copy of your UCC 11, UCC 3,1RS668, and the second page of your UCC 11 together as a single instrument. When this is done, the computer should reflect the "Release of Lien" whenever your 1RS668 is accessed. Check with the deputy registrars. They'll show you. Plus you should have the release in your hand with the book and page numbers on it. The recording fees will be about thirty dollars for each document terminated. Make sure you get your original UCC 11 back.
8. Give thanks and praise to the Almighty. Without His guidance, none of this would have been possible.
9. Locking it in: Look at the notice to the registrar that came in this packet. Make sure the word NOTICE is on there. They won't even know how to record it, but that's okay. Be sure to get the notice notarized. With your notarized notice in hand, AND your witness by your side, go back to the registrar's office and get it recorded. They may record it under NOTICES or MISCELLANEOUS. Whichever — it doesn't matter. As long as the notice is entered into public record and you have a book and page number on your receipt, you're doing great. Make sure you get your original back. Have them make you a few copies, too.
Now, on your way out of the building, look for the public billboard. There will be one somewhere in the building for posting notices. Post one of your copies on the billboard and make sure your witness is paying attention.

On your way home stop by the post office and get a Registered mail sticker with the number on it. Tell the postal worker you need the number so that you can include it on your letter, if they must know. Write the date and the registered mail number on one of your copies and get it mailed. This will cost about ten dollars. Lots of times the registrar's mailing address is not what you would think. Just call their office and ask. Make sure you address the mail to the name of the person and their title. That way you'll have your receipt returned with their signature on it. That registrar will never again be able to say he didn't know. Putting the registrar on notice in this way may or may not guarantee no more 668s will be recorded against you. What it will do is make revoking their bond a sure thing. That brings us to our tenth step.
10. Forcing the issue. This is plan "B". You can use this if your registrar refused to record your UCC 3 or if another 668 gets recorded against you. Modify the plan as needed to suit your situation. You can have the registrar's bond revoked if you can show wrongdoing on their part and how you were damaged as a result. Affidavits from you and your witness attesting to the registrar's refusal to record your legal instrument and how you were damaged as a result should be mailed — registered — to the bondholder. Don't forget to mention the possibility of a lawsuit and their being a party to it if they continue to carry a bond on this person. If you got your UCC 3 recorded, but another 668 got recorded against you, include a copy of your notice and proof that it was recorded and posted (have your witness state that in his affidavit) and delivered through registered mail. Include a copy of the mail receipt with their signature. I don't know much about revoking. You can get that information from another better source. If you can get the registrar's bond revoked, the replacement will likely be the deputy registrar. After seeing what happened to his old boss, he'll probably behave better. Plus, you're the one responsible for getting them that job; you've made a friend.

[David Merrill]

Thank you Rottweiller:


That looks like a very helpful instruction set for the UCC-3 process.

[ThomPaine]

WOW thanks guys, looks like I have some research and some work to do..

thanks again,

Thom

[rottweiler]

I got it off this forum some time ago. I just wonder if a variation of that would work for any so called notice of lien, like a mechanics lien, that was bereft of a court ordered judgment.

Thom Paine,
Maybe someone is kind enough to post AreYouLostAt"C" for you. It is a must read.

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Thank you Rottweiller:


That looks like a very helpful instruction set for the UCC-3 process.

[David Merrill]

Indeed:

http://friends-n-family-research.inf...uLostAtSea.pdf
http://friends-n-family-research.inf...l_Diagram1.jpg

[rottweiler]

I have a pdf file that is 222 pages long. How do I go about posting it?

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Indeed:

http://friends-n-family-research.inf...uLostAtSea.pdf
http://friends-n-family-research.inf...l_Diagram1.jpg