Taxpayer Examined

[Jerry Pitts]

deleted by author

[weishaupt1776]

remember that there is a difference between a United States National, National of the United States, and a (insert state) National.

There is no such status as "American National" as it is only a general designation for all 50 of the distinct state nationalities

[ss_stealth]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

remember that there is a difference between a United States National, National of the United States, and a (insert state) National.

There is no such status as "American National" as it is only a general designation for all 50 of the distinct state nationalities

Weishaupt1776, let me see if I can get his straight:

National: One who owes his/her allegiance to a state. Is one automatically a national of one's state of origin? And I've heard of "dual citizenship" but is there such a thing as "duel national-ship"? I've read something about all jews around the world being a welcome addition to the nation of Israel -- is that dual natioanl-ship or citizenship?

Unites States National: Allegiance to the United States, the corporate, de facto, enforcement by the barrel of a gun "government".

National of the United States: ... I thought I had it but I don't. How does this differ from US National? It seems the words are just rearranged.

(insert state) National: Allegiance to the de jure nation-state of one's location of birth/creation. This is the type of "national" that is "foreign" to the "United States Inc." but physically sets within the border of said de facto government.

[ss_stealth]

Originally Posted by fulltitle

Without Prejudice.
Regarding firearms: simply the BATF types will look to the serial number on the weapon called a 'firearm' (you might do well to be careful about that statutory terminology!) to determine whether it was involved in interstate commerce. Quite frankly, IMHO you're better off rolling your own. Many receivers can be made cheaply and easily. Also from the BATF perspective, its typically the receiver that is "the firearm" for Federal/commerce among the States. If the receiver was made by a Federally licensed entity then thats where you get your Federal markings. Nothing here is to condone unlawful application of any technology.

P.S. Putting "Made in the U.S.A." on your DIY cannon might be pretty stupid. :-) You might want some bullets too.

RIIIIiiiiight. Strictly for informational purposes. Good information nevertheless, Fulltitle. I'll be looking into these sites.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by ss_stealth

Weishaupt1776, let me see if I can get his straight:

National: One who owes his/her allegiance to a state. Is one automatically a national of one's state of origin? And I've heard of "dual citizenship" but is there such a thing as "duel national-ship"? I've read something about all jews around the world being a welcome addition to the nation of Israel -- is that dual natioanl-ship or citizenship?

Unites States National: Allegiance to the United States, the corporate, de facto, enforcement by the barrel of a gun "government".

National of the United States: ... I thought I had it but I don't. How does this differ from US National? It seems the words are just rearranged.

(insert state) National: Allegiance to the de jure nation-state of one's location of birth/creation. This is the type of "national" that is "foreign" to the "United States Inc." but physically sets within the border of said de facto government.

Okay you are dead on, let me revise the 3 terms here

8 USC § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

8 USC § 1408. Nationals but not citizens of the United States at birth

(insert state) national pursuant to
8 USC 1101(a)(21), 1502, and GPO Printing Manual 5.22 -23

[TKL]

A few years ago I met a woman who told me that her parents traveled a lot and as a consequence she was born outside the U.S.

Her status on her papers was "Citizen of the United States of America."

Her parents who were U.S. citizens was told that their daughter could be naturalize as a U.S. citizen once she entered back to the U.S. and be qualified for SSN.

Interesting.

[fulltitle]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

remember that there is a difference between a United States National, National of the United States, and a (insert state) National.

Ah the unlearned might be confused. Let's reduce it to simple English grammer:

#1) national is not the same as National.

#2) United States national is not the same as United States National.

There is no such status as "American National" as it is only a general designation for all 50 of the distinct state nationalities

Perhaps for you there is no such thing as an "American National". It appears that you are speaking from within a paradigm or framework of thought. I beg to differ. Does it not exist in your view because they say it doesnt exist or they dont say it exists? I wouldnt neccesarily consider such a perspective to be liberating.

Furthermore there might be a distinct difference between a nation and a state. Perhaps in some framework of thought only nations have nationals and only states have citizens.

Reminds me of a scene in the movie Bedknobs & Broomsticks where a sign was posted that read something like this:

NO PEOPLING. BY ORDER OF THE KING.

So Weis it would seem that in your opinion that no man can be freely standing or traveling on American soil without being somehow connected with a 'state' of some sort. Are you saying that even though it was America from sea to shining sea and that the United States along with Canada and Texas and Florida-even though such might have been afterthoughts that there could be no such thing as an American National or of a nation called America? Yes perhaps the United States presumes America to refer to the United States but does that necessarily make their definition pentultimate?

I mean does it make snese to say that "European national" to be a general designation for nationals of European states and then somehow rule out the possibility of nationals/Nationals of Mexico (Republic of Mexico is actually the name of the federal state not the name of the separate republics which formed Mexico), Alberta, Nova Scotia, British Columbia, Ontario, Manitoba, etc. from being American nationalies or from being American Nationals? That would be some amazing magic tricks. But at the same time who says that Alberta isnt just as much a UK maritime creation and therefore a UK maritime colony and that Alberta even exists "in land" (see also: inland)--who says it doesn't? Yes indeed in certain circles there might be a tendency to equate "America" with "United States of America", but who has to accept that as being something other than an extremely pretentious stretch?

[weishaupt1776]

THEY do use the "American National" term in 8 USC 1502.

However, the individual nationalities are in GPO 5.22-5.23

Look at it like this

SOmeone from Spain, Germany, or Italy is from Europe, but the term "European" is only a general colloquialism

There lawful RECOGNIZED status is "German National", etc . .

[palani]

Certainly might be instructive to take a look at the Mexican constitution of 1917 - They seem to know the difference between a citizen and a national

Article 37.

1. Mexican nationality is lost:
1. By the voluntary acquisition of a foreign nationality;
2. By accepting or using titles of nobility which imply submission to a foreign state;
3. By residing, if a Mexican by naturalization, for five consecutive years in the country of origin;
4. By passing in any public instrument, when Mexican by naturalization, as a foreigner, or by obtaining and using a foreign passport;
2. Mexican citizenship is lost:
1. By accepting or using titles of nobility which imply submission to a foreign government;
2. By rendering voluntary services to a foreign government without permission of the Federal Congress or of its Permanent Committee;
3. By accepting or using foreign decorations without permission of the Federal Congress or of its Permanent Committee;
4. By accepting titles or functions from the government of another country without previous permission of the Federal Congress or its Permanent Committee, excepting literary, scientific, or humanitarian titles which may be freely accepted;
5. By aiding a foreigner or a foreign country, against the Nation, in any diplomatic claim or before an international tribunal;
6. In other cases which the laws may specify.

http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/d...itleIChapterIV

Article 30. Mexican nationality is acquired by birth or by naturalization:

1. Mexicans by birth are:
1. Those born in the territory of the Republic, regardless of the nationality of their parents:
2. Those born in a foreign country of Mexican parents; of a Mexican father and a foreign mother; or of a Mexican mother and an unknown father;
3. Those born on Mexican vessels or airships, either war or merchant vessels.
2. Mexicans by naturalization are:
1. Foreigners who obtain letters of naturalization from the Secretariat of Foreign Relations;
2. A foreign woman who marries a Mexican man and has or establishes her domicile within the national territory.

[ThomPaine]

from Black's 6th:

Naturalisation:

The process by which a person acquires nationality after birth and becomes entitled to the priviledges of U.S. citizenship. A naturalised citizen is one who, alien by birth, has received U.S. citizenship under naturalisation laws.

the definitions of state and nation are VERY similar and quite lengthy, but I will post them if desired. Both refer to a body politic, unified governments, etc.

I havent yet found anything that indicates a free man cannot be stateless or nationless. All words, terms and proceedures seem to lean towards application or voluntary actions:

acquires nationality, entitled to priviledges, submitted themselves to the jurisdiction of a government, owing permanent allegience to a government, etc.

Though people are 'forced' or coerced into doing things everyday for many reasons, it seems quite antithetical to force a man to accept priviledges or to force a man to pledge allegience or submit to jurisdiction. Those all seem to be voluntary acts to me.

Thom