Taxation Discuss Taxation (IRS, Real Estate Taxes, Car Taxes, etc.).


Go Back   Suijuris Forums > Educational & Learning > Taxation
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-02-2008, 11:26 PM
psholtz's Avatar
psholtz psholtz is offline
Mental Jujitsu
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 672
The George Gordon Lectures on Social Security

Recently there was a thread about opening a bank account w/o a SSN. It inspired me to go back and do something I've been meaning to do for a while now, and give the George Gordon lectures on Social Security a more serious study.

The lectures are available here:

http://www.georgegordon.org/A/P/0114a-32.mp3
http://www.georgegordon.org/A/P/0114b-32.mp3
http://www.georgegordon.org/A/P/0114c-32.mp3
http://www.georgegordon.org/A/P/0114d-32.mp3
http://www.georgegordon.org/A/P/0114e-32.mp3
http://www.georgegordon.org/A/P/0114f-32.mp3
http://www.georgegordon.org/A/P/0114g-32.mp3

http://db.georgegordon.com/index.php?yr=2005

What I'm going to do here is post my notes from the lectures. Not that I agree w/ everything herein, not that I've researched everything herein, etc.. but I thought it's worth posting and debating and considering what Gordon has to say on the subject.

So here goes... what follows is in brief, "notes" format (i.e., non-complete sentences). In particular, the legal cites and references were taken down by hand; there may be typos and misspellings in them:

==========================================
SS is the "Third Rail" of politics (Tip O'Neil)
It's been around since 1935 when it was created by the New Deal administration of FDR

Fact about SS:

* It's a pay-as-you-go program
* It's a Ponzi scheme
* It's not self-sustaining
* Ultimately, it will collapse
* Mathematically it cannot go on forever
* However, Ponzi schemes can go on for a long time

14 million people in the US (about 5%) do not participate in Social Security. Examples include:

* Amish
* Mennonites
* The aristocratic intelligensia (Rockefellers, Morgans, Harrimans, etc)

SS is a voluntary program
You have to volunteer for SS to become a taxpayer under Title 26.

If you don't want SS, what to do?
Why would you want to avoid something so universally accepted?
What are the benefits of SS?

* You are paying 16.1% of everything you produce into SS
* Then you qualify for the income tax, which takes another minimum of 17%
* That's already 1/3 of everything you make, just b/c you voluntarily want to participate in SS

SS is a license, you have to have this license (i.e., number) to work
Many people think "it's the law" (it's not really)

* The State may require private individuals to obtain a State-created franchise -- such as a license -- to work for the State or any of its corporate creations.
* A corporation, which is a creature of the State, can be compelled to require a prospective employee to possess an SSN
* SSN is evidence of a State-created franchise
* They can do this prior to hiring you, the applicant, for the job
* This is because an individual has no common-law right to work for a corporation.
* Working for a corporation is a privilege, granted by the State
* Corporations are a creature of the civil law
* Corporations don't come from the common law, they don't come from Moses or the Scripture or the common law of King Alfred the Great.
* The common law does not recognize corporations created under the civil law jurisidction.
* Corporations are juristic State-created persons.
* Under corporate law, the creator of the Corporation -- that is, the State -- can demand anything it desires from its creations, such as regulation by statute and taxation.
* The State can even destroy a corporation by use of taxation (Enoch v. Williams, 370, 1).
* Just as a State employee must obtain a SSN and pay an income tax on the privilege of working for the State, the individual freeman -- who is otherwise enfranchised -- must admit to enfranchisement to work for the State or one of the State's corporations.
* Those people who have applied for and received a SSN have applied for and received a privilege from government for which an excise tax can be levied.
* The income tax is an excise tax, it's a "privilege" tax
* Proof of participation is the SS account number;
* The SSN is a quasi-license, it's a contract to work, for all of those who want to work for the State or for one of its corporations.
* The SSH has the effect of extending the State franchise to the employee
* Participation in the SS welfare system, as well as the privilege to receive entitlements such as unemployments, food stamps, are Congressionally-granted benefits, they accrue to participants in the program.
* If you are not a holder of an SSN, you can't get unemployment insurance, you can't get welfare, food stamps, aid to families w/ dependent children.
* Any privilege granted by government is a proper subject for taxation.
* The benefits are in effect subsidies of certain privileges, such as minimum wage, unemployment and compensation benefits.
* There are 108 benefits provided under the Social Security program.
* The costs of these benefits can be levied upon such privileges as an indirect or excise tax.
* Since the corporation is nothing more than an extension of the tate, its employees (i.e., the employees of the corporation who are employees of the State, or employees of the State) can be forced to voluntarily (<- wording is Gordon's but note the DoubleThink) obtain a SSN as a federal license to work for a corporation and franchise. You can see that in the U.S. v. Flora (362 US 145).
* You can be forced to voluntarily (<- wording is Gordon's but note the DoubleThink) accept and use Federal Reserve Notes in payment of that consideration of just compensation of the debt arising between the employer, the corporation and the Federal government.
* You can be required to pay the federal tax debt arising from this franchise in Federal Reserve Notes.
* You can be compelled to provide information, and file a return, and file an IRS W-4 form upon employment which is a contract of franchise, an expectation and a promise of payment of the tax due at year's end.

OK.. pretty substanial brain dump.

More coming soon..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-03-2008, 02:04 AM
phreeman2003 phreeman2003 is offline
Unplugged
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 156
I don't know if they're bait and switch...

however, I believe I've seen advertisements touting no s.s. loans/accounts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-03-2008, 06:34 AM
netwrkranger's Avatar
netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
Come and Get Some!
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,090
Social Security

SS also has elements of a tontine scheme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine

Learned that from George Gordon as well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-10-2008, 07:42 PM
psholtz's Avatar
psholtz psholtz is offline
Mental Jujitsu
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 672
The reason generally cited for why tontine insurance plans were made illegal was b/c of the incentive certain participants had to kill other members.

Makes you shudder when you consider that the *government* is the one administering the tontine insurance scam called SS..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-10-2008, 11:16 PM
gldskr's Avatar
gldskr gldskr is offline
Practice Makes Perfect
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona state
Posts: 449
psholtz

Social Security isn't the scam, it is merely a corrolary to it. The real scam is the Federal Reserve and its fiat money, everything else is just a financing scheme.

Without the con the scheme never materializes, that is where your senses should be attuned to. If it were not for the Feds we would not be experiencing the hell on earth we now are or will be.

gldskr
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-10-2008, 11:49 PM
psholtz's Avatar
psholtz psholtz is offline
Mental Jujitsu
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by gldskr
psholtz

Social Security isn't the scam, it is merely a corrolary to it. The real scam is the Federal Reserve and its fiat money, everything else is just a financing scheme.

Without the con the scheme never materializes, that is where your senses should be attuned to. If it were not for the Feds we would not be experiencing the hell on earth we now are or will be.

gldskr
Oh, you'll get no argument from me about the Federal Reserve.. indeed I agree, they are the root of the Beast.

Just doing a brief study of one of the branches here, w/ SSA, though..

I'm thinking it looks like Social Security is the primary nexus through which people contract into the income tax.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-11-2008, 12:04 AM
gldskr's Avatar
gldskr gldskr is offline
Practice Makes Perfect
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona state
Posts: 449
Social Security is surely the hook as far as the reporting goes, but is irrelevant for all other purposes.

In the end it all boils down to mathematics; gross, net, taxable. In this respect David Merill has explained how to avoid such equations, with proper redemption of bogus FRN's via U.S. 411.

gldskr
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-11-2008, 12:47 AM
psholtz's Avatar
psholtz psholtz is offline
Mental Jujitsu
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by gldskr
Social Security is surely the hook as far as the reporting goes, but is irrelevant for all other purposes.

In the end it all boils down to mathematics; gross, net, taxable. In this respect David Merill has explained how to avoid such equations, with proper redemption of bogus FRN's via U.S. 411.

gldskr
Indeed, and I've been properly "redeeming" bogus FRN's via U.S. 411 for some while now.

But still, I figure it can't hurt to formally sever the reporting basis either..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-11-2008, 07:18 AM
netwrkranger's Avatar
netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
Come and Get Some!
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,090
Question

Would anyone have the treatise, booklet, or information on U.S. 411?

Regards,
netwrkranger
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-11-2008, 10:32 AM
psholtz's Avatar
psholtz psholtz is offline
Mental Jujitsu
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwrkranger
Would anyone have the treatise, booklet, or information on U.S. 411?

Regards,
netwrkranger
Here's some info:

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/convincing.html
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No Social Security Number?? David Merrill Court 8 04-29-2008 04:31 PM
Opt-out of Social Security FBIman Taxation 3 07-19-2007 04:58 AM
Un-Social Security? In Freedoms Cause Citizenship & Jurisdiction 56 04-22-2005 09:32 PM
Social Security #'s john4na Citizenship & Jurisdiction 4 05-17-2004 03:47 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:54 PM.
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
2003-2008 Copyright by Law Research Group, LLC Terms of Use | Sitemap | Privacy Policy | Notice/Disclaimer