application revisited, and a step further - Page 2

James · #11 02-19-2004, 10:08 PM

goldphoenix,
>>I need to feed my family, and wonder if I should just go ahead and fill out the forms, and mark exempt. Any thoughts?<<
Write “without prejudice” above the social security-number and also above your signature and mark exempt. This will buy you some time. Use your time and finances wisely, and get educated.
A pertinent fact involved in this issue is that the W-2 and W-4 forms are a “tax class 5,” which is, “Estate and Gift Income” according to the “Automated Data Processing & Integrated Date Retrieval System Document 6209” from the private organization known as the “Internal Revenue Service.”& This document contains the means by which the “Individual Master File” codes, kept on everyone, are deciphered.& In other words, the IRS is willfully and knowingly committing fraud on each and every person that is allegedly required to fill out the W-4 form.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o

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“The people, or sovereigns are not bound by general words in statutes, restrictive of prerogative right, title or interest, unless expressly named. Acts of limitation do not bind the King or the people. The people have been ceded all the rights of the King, the former sovereign. ..It is a maxim of the common law, that when an act is made for the common good and to prevent injury, the King shall be bound; though not named; but when a statute is general and prerogative right would be divested or taken from the King or the people “ he shall not be bound.” [The People v. Herkimer. 4 Cowen (NY) 345.348 (1825)](Emphasis has been added by this author.) <o></o>
"The classification citizen of the United States is distinguished from a Citizen of one of the several states, in that the former is a special class of citizen created by Congress " [US v. Anthony, 24 Fed 829 (1873)] (Emphasis has been added by this author.)<o></o>
"... the term 'citizen' in the United States, is analogous to the term 'subject' in the common law,. the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. "[14CJS section 4 quotes State v. Manuel, 20 NC 122: was used in its political sense](Emphasis has been added by this author.)<o></o>

goldphoenix · #12 02-19-2004, 10:40 PM

>yeah, you could put "under duress" on the form... it works well.

cool!

>Also, you could use the W-8 substitute and the attachment that goes along >with it... as well as the letter to the employer provided at familyguardian.

Is that the one titled IRS Form W-8BEN Substitute? under No. 6 Employers? under the Forms section? (Certificate of Foreign Status for U.S. National/Nonresident Alien? Here's the link to the site for ease of confirmation:

http://www.famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/FormsInstr.htm

Which one is the attachment? and which letter to the employer? there's quite a few! (yes, I'm thick! wink)

There is a TON of info on that site! It'll take me literally years to wade through it all! I still haven't read through all the info on this site yet!

>I know someone that has used this process... but not enough time has gone >by to state a claim for total success.

I look forward to hearing more!

>And yes... I meant AFTER SECURING THE JOB -- and those you work with >learning more truth from you.

Alright. My major impediment is the use of the ssn, which I no longer want any part of. I will find and download what i can and what seems to apply and hope that it will make a difference!

I really would love to make some difference in helping others attain their freedoms. If there are substitute forms I can use I'd much rather do that! Anything to preserve my freedoms. I hate the feeling that I have to sign anything to work. I'd much rather just work and get paid, so much simpler. So I will print out what I can (very short on funds) and approach the employer with some of these tomorrow.

Thank you again, Ice! You're awesome!

goldphoenix · #13 02-19-2004, 11:14 PM

>Write “without prejudice” above the social security-number and also above >your signature and mark exempt. This will buy you some time. Use your time >and finances wisely, and get educated.

Okay. The only thing I will be able to use the finances for at first is to catch up on my electric and rent.

>A pertinent fact involved in this issue is that the W-2 and W-4 forms are >a “tax class 5,” which is, “Estate and Gift Income” according to >the “Automated Data Processing & Integrated Date Retrieval System >Document 6209” from the private organization known as the “Internal >Revenue Service.” This document contains the means by which >the “Individual Master File” codes, kept on everyone, are deciphered. In other >words, the IRS is willfully and knowingly committing fraud on each and every >person that is allegedly required to fill out the W-4 form.

It seems it is as much the large corporations that demand that their franchises collect this information as it is the IRS. They seem to be working together.

I still am struggling with the ssn being provided. I'll see what I come up with. Maybe provide the employer with that affidavit stating he asked and I didn't provide the number.

I'm still not sure which forms to fill out tax wise. The ones he provided me with, the W-8's or the W-4's. He provided me with both state and federal tax forms, both being W-4's.

Those are some great quotes, James! Thank you for your input!

Jerseee · #14 02-19-2004, 11:28 PM

Goldphoenix,

I admire your stand and envy you somewhat for the courage you are displaying.

James has a point and uses the techniques that I use. Ice stated this technique from the early part of this thread. YOu get your answers straight from the horses mouth.

It may take me awhile to dig up some codes but, I am sure that you can find the weapons that you need from familyguardian.org

Also, I have noticed something very important that you should start practicing to change. You need to stop taking ownership in what is not yours. FOr example, you keep saying my SSN. But you know it is not yours. It is this type of thinking that may trip you up and lose jurisdiction if you are ever questioned up front. You know there is a difference between you and the fiction but, you keep claiming fictional property as yours. I know its a hard thing to do, just starting out in this movement but, it is key to always be aware of the difference.

I envy you because you are in a position to take control of your life without too much hassle--IMHO you have an opportunity to start over with less hassles.

good luck

Ice · #15 02-19-2004, 11:57 PM

goldphoenix,

There is a "W-8 Substitute" as well as the W-8BEN.& That is the one that I know of that is being used.& There is a letter that is attached directly to this particular W-8 Substitute.& And you're right... there is a lot of stuff to wade through at that site.

James,

Love your posts... always informative... never failing to support a position.

Jerseee,

I share your admiration for those members that demonstrate courage and accept the challenges.& It is an honor to know them.

Ice

Jerseee · #16 02-20-2004, 12:02 AM

thanks Ice,

We both know that it is folks like goldphoenix, Montana, Hula, Rory and a host of others who personify this fight.

I just thought of where goldphoenix can look....Title 26 and Title 42. I can't get specific rightnow but in those 2 codes they fail to define 'income' and who is to pay.

Ice · #17 02-20-2004, 12:14 AM

And this is the place to find both -- in downloadable formats!! -- :

http://uscode.house.gov/download.htm

&

goldphoenix · #18 02-20-2004, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Goldphoenix, I admire your stand and envy you somewhat for the courage you are displaying.

Thank you, Jerseee.

Quote:

Also, I have noticed something very important that you should start practicing to change. You need to stop taking ownership in what is not yours. FOr example, you keep saying my SSN. But you know it is not yours. It is this type of thinking that may trip you up and lose jurisdiction if you are ever questioned up front. You know there is a difference between you and the fiction but, you keep claiming fictional property as yours. I know its a hard thing to do, just starting out in this movement but, it is key to always be aware of the difference.

Yes, your'e right. It's a hard and awful habit to break!

Quote:

&I envy you because you are in a position to take control of your life without too much hassle--IMHO you have an opportunity to start over with less hassles. good luck

I actually have a great deal at risk. With my past runins (to put it mildly) with BB and all that I have at risk now some might call me crazy or just plain stupid to be walking this path now. The last thing I want to do is draw attention to myself. However, at the same time, from what I have been reading it is my God-given right and the Law to not have taxes withheld (and my present position does not call for "gifting" my hard-earned "money" out), as well as to not be identified by a government number. I only wish I had started walking this path a decade ago. I might then have avoided a great deal of pain and kept my dignity intact.

Thank you again, Jersee!

goldphoenix

goldphoenix · #19 02-20-2004, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

goldphoenix,

There is a "W-8 Substitute" as well as the W-8BEN.& That is the one that I know of that is being used.& There is a letter that is attached directly to this particular W-8 Substitute.& And you're right... there is a lot of stuff to wade through at that site.

Ice

Sorry, the W-8 Substitute? or the W-8 substitute? I think you mean the Substitute, however, want to be sure. I'm off to the library today to print some things out and try to persuade the employer. If I can't I guess I'll sign exempt and without prejudice.

I would try the lawsuit on for size, however, I would need some help with that. The shoe has always been on the other foot for me.

goldphoenix

goldphoenix · #20 02-20-2004, 08:37 AM

Okay guys. I have looked at the codes to an extent. Here is what I came up with.

Sec. 1441. Withholding of tax on nonresident aliens

-STATUTE-

(a) General rule

Except as otherwise provided in subsection (c), all persons, in whatever capacity acting (including lessees or mortgagors of real or personal property, fiduciaries, employers, and all officers and employees of the United States) having the control, receipt, custody, disposal, or payment of any of the items of income specified in subsection (b) (to the extent that any of such items constitutes gross income from sources within the United States), of any nonresident alien individual or of any foreign partnership shall (except as otherwise provided in regulations prescribed by the Secretary under section 874) deduct and withhold from such items a tax equal to 30 percent thereof, except that in the case of any item of income specified in the second sentence of subsection

(b), the tax shall be equal to 14 percent of such item.

(b) Income items

The items of income referred to in subsection (a) are interest (other than original issue discount as defined in section 1273), dividends, rent, salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations, emoluments, or other fixed or determinable annual or periodical gains, profits, and income, gains described in section 631(b) or (c), amounts subject to tax under section 871(a)(1)(C), gains subject to tax under section 871(a)(1)(D), and gains on transfers described in section 1235 made on or before October 4, 1966. The items of income referred to in subsection (a) from which tax shall be deducted and withheld at the rate of 14 percent are amounts which are received by a nonresident alien individual who is temporarily present in the United States as a nonimmigrant under subparagraph (F), (J), (M), or (Q) of section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act and which are - blah blah blah

Then there's this definition: 

(e) Alien resident of Puerto Rico

For purposes of this section, the term ''nonresident alien individual'' includes an alien resident of Puerto Rico.

So much of this reads like mud to me!

I'll keep looking. it just seems to me they are considering "wages, remunerations" etc. to be "income."

I'm obviously missing something.