IRS must respond - Page 3

#21 03-09-2004, 10:12 PM

Jerseee and any others that might know,

Is there a portion of the code that you are aware of that refers specifically to the verification of tax debt?& I noticed that you have referred to verifying the debt but I don't know how to go about doing that.

It seems to me like it is asking an original creditor to verify debt.

Thanks,

Sara-Jane

Ice · #22 03-09-2004, 10:58 PM

Yes.& Basically, you ask them to verify the debt.

I had some info sent in regards to someone that did just that... and the IRS went away.& I will look to see if I still have that particular email.

Ice

Ice · #23 03-09-2004, 11:33 PM

Linda,

The article I mentioned in regards to removing the tax lien is available in the downloads section.& It is the Tax Truth Newsletter.

Ice

James · #24 03-10-2004, 12:05 AM

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Linda
<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">&
>>I am confused by the postings that I have read today.<<<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o

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Hopefully, not as confused as I was with some statements in Jmunson’s letter, infra (below).

>>I sent a letter very similar to Jmunson to the IRS stating that I was revoking my signature on previous 1040 forms as it had been made known to me that&I am&not required by law to pay 1040 taxes or even file the 1040&tax form but provide only a statement.<<<o

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I’m not aware that one is required by law to file a statement. Talk about confusing, you sent a letter very similar to Jmunson. In that letter it stated >>One is not, by that definition, subject to any internal revenue tax, and therefore, One is not, by definition, a “taxpayer.”<<(Emphasis added) Why then would one state >>This is a return, for the year 2000 as One can at best define at 26 USC §§ 6103 and 6213(g) of the Internal Revenue Code, and 26 CFR § 301.7216-1(b)(1). This return is filed in lieu of an Internal Revenue Service Form 1040 series and satisfies the requirements of IRC § 6012.<< ? (Emphasis added) The letter states >>One has read the law and understands that all past filings of Internal Revenue Service Form 1040 by me have been in error.<< Then why send in a statement as required only for “taxpayers”? Consent removes or obviates a mistake. (Maxim) The letter also states >> Title 26 USC § 6012, states that every person liable for any income “internal revenue” tax must file a return or statement as provided by law.& For the reasons stated herein, One believes that One, is not liable for any internal revenue income tax or filing requirement.<<(Emphasis added)& Then why send in a return or statement (title of letter was “Filing Statement”)if one is not subject to or liable for an “income tax” or “filing requirement”? The letter states>>However, this statementis filed in order to avoid ambiguity or confusion regarding my filing requirement and status as well as to avoid any possible sanctions for failure to file.<<(Emphasis added) What filing requirements?& What sanctions for failure to file? “The revenue laws are a code or system in regulation of tax assessment and collection. They relate to taxpayers,and not to non-taxpayers.”(Long v. Rasmussen, 281 F. 236, at 238, in 1922; and Economy Plumbing and Heating v. U.S., 470 F. 2d 585, at 589, in 1972) Didn’t letter state? >> One is not, by definition, a “taxpayer.<< Parts, supra, of the letter seems confusing and contradicting to me. I was once ignorant about the so-called “income tax.” I once read “The prices for ignorance is, learn to pay or pay to learn.” I paid to learn. I’m not where I want to be, but I’m not where I used to be.& <o

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When you prove fraud on a contract it vitiates (makes void) the contract.[Black’s Law Dictionary 5th Ed.] I don’t understand how revoking your signature on previous “1040” forms would be effective. I’m willing to learn. To me a contract would not be worth the paper it’s written on if one could simply revoke their signature. Is there evidence to support that revoking your signature on previous forms worked or works?<o

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>>If this is not appropriate how do I approach them?<<<o

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That depends on whom you want to believe. At every turn we are faced with conflicting facts, conflicting realities, and always with misrepresentations, half truths, and outright fraud! The enemy is united more than the people. The people are very divided on your question “how do I approach them.” “And if a house is divided against itself, that house is unable to stand.” (The Scriptures)<o

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>>I owe 10 yrs of back taxes according to the IRS. for the years 1990 to 1999.<<<o

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The burden of proof is on the “IRS” not you, to wit: Upon the one alleging, not upon him denying, rests the duty of proving. (Maxim)<o></o>
The necessity of proving lies with him who makes the charge. (Maxim) <o

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&<o

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Notice how Ice is trying to get you to think with his question: >> Did they supply you with proof of their claim that "the courts have consistently ruled against your arguments"?<<<o

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Negative facts are not proof.(Maxim)<o></o>
&<o

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Jerseee also, trying to get you to think, stated >>there is no possible way that you can dispute something that you do not know to be valid or not.<<<o

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The following maxim supports Jerseee’s statement: What does not appear and what is not is the same; it is not the defect of law, but the want of proof.(Maxim)
&<o></o>
To be able to know is the same as to know. This maxim is applied to the duty of every one to know the law.(Maxim)
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I hope in some way I’ve helped and not confused you more. I apologize in advance if I added to your confusion.
&<o

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Ice · #25 03-10-2004, 12:24 AM

I have searched for the email (mentioned above)... I no longer have it.& I may have posted the info somewhere in this forum... but I wouldn't know where.

Sorry I couldn't find it.

Ice

Jerseee · #26 03-10-2004, 01:45 AM

Linda,

You as the alleged debtor have a right to ask for verification of the debt. Of course they are not going to just roll over and say okay you got us--but, that sounds so ridiculous that they have to verify nothing they claim. This is turning my stomach how the courts are doing follks concerning these matters. Anyway, sorry about my rant....but do not forget your remedy. Use your remedy.

#27 03-10-2004, 07:27 AM

james,

thank you for showing the holes in that 'statement.'& i had wondered whether it was good or not, and now i know better.& i appreciate the education.& i don't intend to use it ever again.

jerseee,

do i send a VoD as one does to a 'normal' creditor (a.k.a, credit card company, third-party collector)?

is the VoD posted here as a form one that could be sent to the IRS in response to their NoDs?& is it a form you would use, or would you rather use something different?& the VoD i've used in the past i'd like to have someone knowledgeable (more so than i, and that doesn't take much!)&review&- would you be willing to do that? &i could also forward to you the dox ms. joy sent to me for your perusal (in confidence, and not to be forwarded to any other living, flesh-and-blood human being; i'd offer to post them here, however, as the "templates" belong to ms. joy, i'd rather not violate her rights)&if you think that would help.

again, any and all help appreciated!

padawan,

jon

Jerseee · #28 03-10-2004, 09:17 AM

Jon,

I would be honored to assist you but, that would make me your counsel and I cannot provide legal advice.& but, i can tell you what has and does work for me.& that is to respond accordingly to their correspondences and never forget not to argue and remain graceful since you know you have remedy.

the technique i use is just that and I taylor the docs to reflect my position and offer.

why not just demand that they verify the debt and at the same time, tender a good faith CPN for the total amount owed?

#29 03-10-2004, 09:43 AM

jerseee,

you have already assisted myself and others on this forum.

does that make you 'our' counsel by your words?

i ask that you define 'counsel' so that i may understand what that term means, as apparantly, by asking for an opinion from an apparantly learned individual, i automatically make that individual my 'counsel.'& i, of course, am not asking for 'legal advice' (such rendered by an attorney).& i merely seek constructive opinion from someone who appears to know more than i.

honestly, i have no way to know if what i have is right or wrong without the opinions of others to guide me.& does that make everyone my counsel?& i think not.

opinion does not equate to advice.

using your opinion to make a decision, whichever direction i choose, does not make you my counsel.

afa responding accordingly to 'their' correspondence - i am unsure how to respond or i wouldn't be here to learn how.& i ask you, how am i to learn the correct & proper way to respond, code and all, if i cannot garner the opinion & technique&of those who do know the correct procedure?

afa tendering the cpn, etc., how am i to know that the VoD, etc., i send to them is in proper form if i cannot ask someone who purportedly knows the proper form for the education necessary to arrive at the proper form?& as you can see from the prior post of the 'statement' it is full of holes that i did not see because i am not as well educated as i ought to be.& yet, the only way&i know that now is because somebody who knows more than i rendered an opinion on the subject - someone like yourself.

if we are to conduct our commercial affairs in honor, we must learn the methods & see the forms done proper.& the forms, etc., are NOT do***ented in the code, and the only way to obtain those things is from either people like you and/or a site like this where such gets posted.

so, jerseee, how do i solve the dilemma of knowing that i am doing the right thing?& to learn the way, i must be taught by someone who's walked the path.

morpheus:& "there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path..."

the entire time neo was learning to walk the path he was guided by morpheus, and others.

jon&

Ice · #30 03-10-2004, 11:55 AM

Morpheus could only show Neo the door...

Neo had to open it.

&