Failure to File a crime?

[Smith]

When it comes to taxes there is a difference between ATF and personal income taxes For example :look up liabilities in the IRC you are required to pay taxes on ATF because there is a statute and an implementing requlation that gives the statute the full force and effect of law . Now look up liabilities for the personal income tax there is no statute or implementing regulation . Better yet Liabilities for the personal Income tax is not even listed. That is way the difference between the ATF and PI is night and day one is 100% enforcable and one is voluntary. People have been sent to jail for willfull failure to file ,now how can this be? Simple by missappling the law as it is written . A W-4 and a 1099 are classified as a gift tax form, Internal revenue manual 6209 section 2 Forms w-4 and w-4E or class 5 forms . Class 5 is listed as estate and gift tax not a withholding or income tax. Stay away from the 861 arguement that is how taxgate got shut down. Irwin Schiff lays out a pretty good arguement using the law he make some good pointers. There is only two people who can asses your taxes the secretary of the treasury and you . How do you know if you are required to make a return under sec 6011 (A)? Easy first determine if you had income defined by court cases not the dictionary (goto love lawyers double talk , different meanings for common words) I guess to me it is easier to fill out a zero return sent certified mail of course that way when you get mail stating we never received a return photcopy the receipt have it notorized with some sort of statement send it the same way the first was. We have got to remember that the 16th ammendment did not grant any new taxing powers to the government it was to help streamline the collection of taxes from corperations. INCOME IS NOT DEFINED IN THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE , BUT IN SEVERAL US SUPREME COURT CASES . there is several court cases where the DOJ denied that the IRS was part of the government trying to deny subject juristiction and another where the treasury department said they did not know what the IRS was doing. The constitution only has two forms of tax clauses written into it direct taxes and apportionment.

[citizensoldier]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

I was replying to sixthbeasts situation. It sounds like he's been in the clear without a trace. I say LET THE BEAST SLEEP if it hasn't woken up yet. Rebut them when it's time to rebut them

I'm following you now - my misunderstanding.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by Smith

When it comes to taxes there is a difference between ATF and personal income taxes For example :look up liabilities in the IRC you are required to pay taxes on ATF because there is a statute and an implementing requlation that gives the statute the full force and effect of law

True, but those who are sovereign are not subject to code. Yick Wo vs. Hopkins

Originally Posted by Smith

Now look up liabilities for the personal income tax there is no statute or implementing regulation .Better yet Liabilities for the personal Income tax is not even listed.

Trying to get the Gov to obey THEIR code is in reality asking an organized crime unit to obey their house rules

Originally Posted by Smith

That is way the difference between the ATF and PI is night and day one is 100% enforcable and one is voluntary

It's voluntary until they use TDC to obtain your property instead of applying justice good faith & fairness

Originally Posted by Smith

People have been sent to jail for willfull failure to file ,now how can this be? Simple by missappling the law as it is written

[b]No, not simple AND who is misapplying ther law? Are you implying that an organized crime unit obeys laws?

Originally Posted by Smith

A W-4 and a 1099 are classified as a gift tax form, Internal revenue manual 6209 section 2 Forms w-4 and w-4E or class 5 forms . Class 5 is listed as estate and gift tax not a withholding or income tax.

Yes, that's one of the last straws I'm grasping at. Did you see our thread on that here?

Originally Posted by Smith

I guess to me it is easier to fill out a zero return sent certified mail of course that way when you get mail stating we never received a return photcopy the receipt have it notorized with some sort of statement send it the same way the first was.

Suijuris members, don't ever file a zero return EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was a Schiff student, excelled in his material. There are a few gems I've saved. His stuff sounds good if you think code actually applies to you

[rushpat]

Originally Posted by citizensoldier

weis,

I think you misunderstand why I am recommending rebutting the erroneous W-2s or 1099s. Once someone (our boss or client) submits one of their (the IRS) forms claiming we earned "wages" subject to income tax, they (the IRS) will use that as the truth of the matter. Since they will only recognize one of their forms, the Code provides a remedy, the 1040 states it can be used by non-taxpayers to recover wrongly withheld earnings, and it has been honored for the past two years (even for folks who have non-filed for 2 or more years), I see it as the most formidable method of throwing off their chains to date.

My personal opinion is that the filing of a 1040 of any variation puts your account into an active state in their system. If they bother you about taxes, then the steps are to rebut it in affidavit format. Sure, they may ignore it but it sets up the court situation for you later. Filing a 1040 will most likely get you into more hot water than not. Just my experience and learning.

If you've gotten money back for 2 years, then you are the exception to the rule.

Originally Posted by citizensoldier

The fact of the matter above, they got your money unlawfully - they need to give it back.

Now, one should not file anything if there weren't any W-2s or 1099s submitted on their behalf - no affidavit to rebut.

Yes, you shouldn't file anything if they are not bothering you. Let them sleep. if they are pestering you, then rebut the w-2's and 1099's to them. It probably doesn't matter to send it to the company, unless you are still working for them and current years are in question. Really though, if you go to trial, bring up the payroll dept person and get him to explain what you did was somehow a taxable activity, occupation or privelege (excise) and how he determined this, as only ATF activity is defined this way.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by rushpat

. . . explain what you did was somehow a taxable activity, occupation or privelege (excise) and how he determined this, as only ATF activity is defined this way.

More detail, please. Do you have some code/law cites for thatn'?

[Smith]

A forum is a place to discuss ideas,to interact,share and learn. It is not a place where views are forced upon one another . By participating here in this forum we all share a common thread. I am sure that since we are all unique , we each deal with our problems differently.



I am not trying to them to obey the code. I am trying to get them to follow the law of the land . First basic principles of law . One just because a case is old does not mean that it is invalid or not reliable. It is exactly the opposite. An old case , which has never been succesfully challenged nor over turned, is the best of all cases as having withstood the test of time . Second a person does not have to do what an IRS agent tells him to do, he only has to do what the law tells him to do. The law is expressed by constitution, court ruling, statute and regulation. the lowest on the pecking order is regulation. Codes are not mentioned. In order for a reg to have the full force and effect of law, it must site the statute on which it is based. neither is complete without the other only these two, regs and statutes have any force. The costuction of one necessarily involves the constuction of the other. The charges in the information are founded on 1304 and its accompanying regulations,and information was dismissed solely because its alligations did not state an offense under 1304, as amplified by regulations. When the statute and regulation are so inexticably intertwined, the dismissal must be held to involve the construction of a statute. UNITED STATES v. MERSKY, 361 U.S. 431 (1960)

You need to decide if you want them to follow code or law. To argue code is meaningless. Force them to obey the law as it is written.



Weishaupt1776, as to the gift and eastate tax ,I have known about that for about two years now. I would be a fool to only rely on one thing for information it is better to be involved with many people(groups) than one group. Each persons experiance helps to build a picture of what the puzzle looks like.


When an agent steps out of bounds , take him for all that he is worth.

[weishaupt1776]

Smith, you recommended filing a zero return, which is a really bad idea

Now could you help us in this thread http://forum.suijuris.net/showthread.php?t=2164?

I need help verifying what documents or official records this guy was using in his petition.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by charlene

Search find these papers ,aware members can get them. "The Irs Pink Papers"

Charlene

Aware group wants FRNS. Here it is for free
http://forum.suijuris.net/showpost.p...43&postcount=1

[EnSabahNur]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

Smith, you recommended filing a zero return, which is a really bad idea

Now could you help us in this thread http://forum.suijuris.net/showthread.php?t=2164?

I need help verifying what documents or official records this guy was using in his petition.

I'm not so sure that filing the zero return is such a bad idea, actually, I think it can be a really good thing to do. What do you base your bad idea opinion on? Out of curiosity.

[JWR]

What do you base your bad idea opinion on?

I did this and was hit up for a $500 Frivolous Filing Penalty. (kinda what got the ball rolling for me) I did the Irwin Schiff method a while back and have been battling ever since, but I wouldn't change it for the world. You can get an idea of how things started for me HERE. I haven't heard of anybody that has much luck with the zero return. But mabe someone has.

JWR