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  #1  
Old 03-18-2004, 08:22 PM
Randy
 
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rules of evidence



I know (!) this is somewhere else. But here's my dilemma. Knowing from personal experience that state tax agents DO use "third-party collection agencies" left me with the understanding that the agents themselves are under the FDCPA (did I get that right--can never remember the order of those initials).


Found this:<FONT size=2>


FDCPA
ยง 803. Definitions [15 USC 1692a]



(6) The term "debt collector"...does not include --


(C) any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties;....


But my point is that it's not a big deal, since the "rules of evidence" cover it perfectly:<FONT size=2>


</FONT><FONT size=2>http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rules.htm#Rule705</FONT><FONT size=2>


Rule 803. Hearsay Exceptions; Availability of Declarant Immaterial


(6) Records of regularly conducted activity. A memorandum, report, record, or data compilation, in any form, of acts, events, conditions, opinions, or diagnoses, made at or near the time by, or from information transmitted by, a person with knowledge, if kept in the course of a regularly conducted business activity, and if it was the regular practice of that business activity to make the memorandum, report, record or data compilation, all as shown by the testimony of the custodian or other qualified witness, or by certification that complies with </FONT><FONT size=2>Rule 902(11)</FONT><FONT size=2>, </FONT><FONT size=2>Rule 902(12)</FONT><FONT size=2>, or a statute permitting certification, unless the source of information or the method or circumstances of preparation indicate lack of trustworthiness. The term "business" as used in this paragraph includes business, institution, association, profession, occupation, and calling of every kind, whether or not conducted for profit.


(7) Absence of entry in records kept in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (6). Evidence that a matter is not included in the memoranda reports, records, or data compilations, in any form, kept in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (6), to prove the nonoccurrence or nonexistence of the matter, if the matter was of a kind of which a memorandum, report, record, or data compilation was regularly made and preserved, unless the sources of information or other circumstances indicate lack of trustworthiness.


(8) Public records and reports. Records, reports, statements, or data compilations, in any form, of public offices or agencies, setting forth (A) the activities of the office or agency, or (B) matters observed pursuant to duty imposed by law as to which matters there was a duty to report, excluding, however, in criminal cases matters observed by police officers and other law enforcement personnel, or (C) in civil actions and proceedings and against the Government in criminal cases, factual findings resulting from an investigation made pursuant to authority granted by law, unless the sources of information or other circumstances indicate lack of trustworthiness.


So we still go full-circle, back to the agents requirement to "prove."& I'll refrain from commenting on "...lack of trustworthiness...."


Again, I know the "rules of evidence" is around here...somewhere.


Randy


&</FONT></FONT>
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2004, 08:31 PM
Ice's Avatar
Ice Ice is offline
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Re:rules of evidence



Randy,


Remember that when dealing with the IRS you are dealing with a private collection company that the U.S. has stated IS NOT A U.S. AGENCY OR DEPT. (which really flies in the face of the SC cite that states that any entity that regularly receives and transmits data to a gov. is an agency of said gov.... hmmm.)


Ice
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2004, 08:34 PM
Randy
 
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Re:rules of evidence



Hey, Ice...


Yeah, I've got that "somewhere" about the IRS. Just can't find it...yet.


(And how'd that "smiley-guy" sneak into my post? Oh, no. It's those shadow-people running through my house again...)


Randy
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Old 03-18-2004, 10:51 PM
FlunkyNoMo FlunkyNoMo is offline
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Re:rules of evidence



regarding the smiley....
When a "B" is followed by a ")" it displayed as a smiley guy.


B) ...SEE!


&Don't know why..., don't have any court cites that support it..., and couldn't find anything in the Constitution....
IT JUST IS!!


FNM
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  #5  
Old 03-19-2004, 06:16 AM
Randy
 
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Re:rules of evidence



Quote:
Originally Posted by FlunkyNoMo

IT JUST IS!!



Hey, FNM!


I LIKE that answer. Sounds like the way agents talk to us. "I don't care what the code/laws/courts say. Do it because I said SO, dammit!"


Maybe that's what I do wrong. I'm trying to be reasonable with creatures who don't understand reason. Maybe it should be more like this: "I ain't payin' you nothin' and that's the way it is and if you don't like it, piss off!"


Randy
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2004, 08:45 AM
jmunson
 
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Re:rules of evidence



wish it were that simple - 'cept their army of judges, lawyers, and people with guns, is bigger than ours...


B)& Jon
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