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  #1  
Old 03-26-2004, 12:38 AM
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dochand dochand is offline
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W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

My son filed a 'Worker's Statement and Notice to Terminate Form W-4 Agreement (or it's equivalent) and Notice to Revoke Previous Withholding Authorization' with his employer today.

The payroll executive at the company immediately called my son and told him that 'social security' must be taken on everyone, and why would he want to do this anyway? (Huh?) My son asked that any questions regarding this filed statement be put in writing so that they may be addressed with the appropriate cites. The statement itself does include numerous cites. She refused to do this and said that she will pass it on to the appropriate person(s) for review.

I had advised my son to not engage the payroll executive in any arguments and to simply ask that she put her questions in writing for appropriate response.

My question is: Was this the appropriate stance to take? Isn't social security a voluntary contribution tax that should be lumped together with all other taxes for which we are not liable?

Any comments and/or suggestions are welcome.

Doc
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2004, 02:14 AM
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Re:W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE



You were right on the money.& When you request that they put all things in writing... they wince.& That reaction may demonstrate that they are aware that you are in the right... and they know it.


Keep us updated.


&
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2004, 01:55 PM
Tora
 
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Re:W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE



"My question is: Was this the appropriate stance to take? Isn't social security a voluntary contribution tax that should be lumped together with all other taxes for which we are not liable?"


<FONT face="courier new, courier, mono">Getting the SSN is voluntary, but once you get it, and USE it, it's like a&stamp on your head--almost impossible to get rid of.&The employer is the withholding agent for social security taxes and if it is not withheld, they become liable for it-- but only if the employer "believes"&they are liable for it,&ie., if they don't educate themselves&they most likely will believe what the IRS says. </FONT>


&<FONT face="Courier New">Withholding agreements can be terminated, but without a withholding agreement,&you&become a contractor, not an employee. As a contractor you cannot work full time for the same employer, week after week.& And contractors still need an SSN, unless&you've made other arrangements with the&employer.</FONT>


I wish your son good luck... with that anyway.. &


<FONT face="Courier New"></FONT>&


<FONT face="Courier New"></FONT>&
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2004, 05:17 PM
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Re:W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

Ice & Tora

Thank you for your kind replies.

I will take your knowledge and offerings under my wing as we await their next move.

My daughter, who works for the Board of Education, has also submitted her affidavit of withdrawl.

I'll keep you posted as to the next steps as they arise for both of them.

Doc
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Old 04-03-2004, 02:42 PM
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Re:W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

Received the 2nd 'green card' for the W-4 Termination paperwork today. We decided to send it certified mail to both the payroll (in North Carolina) and corporate headquarters (NYC) so everyone has now been put on notice.

The paperwork was received in NYC on 3/29. And from NC on 3/30.

We'll give them another 14 days to comply before we take the next step. Hope we don't have to do that.

My daughter gets paid monthly, so we'll wait until May before we may need to take further action on hers.

Just an update to keep you posted on the progress.

Slow but steady.

Doc
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2004, 12:20 AM
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dochand dochand is offline
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Re:W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

It appears that both my son's and daughter's W-4 Termination paperwork has been totally disregarded and ignored by their respective employers. They have received their paychecks with no changes in withholding thus far. It's almost as if nothing was ever submitted to them.

It's been about 30 days since the paperwork was received by their respective employers. Should more time be allotted before we move to phase 2?

And even more importantly, what should phase 2 consist of to pursue this action?

All suggestions appreciated.

Doc
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2004, 10:53 PM
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Re:W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

Just wanted to bring this up front for any comments or suggestions.

Thanx!

Doc
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2004, 04:16 AM
Tora
 
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Re:W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

<DIV>&</DIV>
<DIV>Dave Champion might be able to help&your son and daughter with their&employer withholding. </DIV>
<DIV>
&</DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Below are some references and testimonials about Dave Champions services at www.nontaxpayer.org

I love Dave's no-nonsense approach and do trust him unequivocally.

I also listen to every radio show from Dave at American Radio Show
American Radio Show : Revealing the American Matrix</FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#800000 size=2>
http://www.americanradioshow.us/archive.html</FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>

We need more people like Dave to spread the truth &amp; enforce what the law really says about the income tax hoax...& please decide for yourself..
---------------

The company that I work for did not understand how I could work there and not be subject to income tax or withholding. They couldn't get it through their heads that I was a nontaxpayer. Dave spent 3 hours with the owner going over the law. At the end of the meeting, the owner said, "I never knew any of this. After what I've learned today we won't withhold from Scott".
Scott S.

I'm a corporate officer. Human Resources and payroll are within my area of responsibility. While I knew that not all workers needed to participate in withholding, I had no idea how to approach our payroll company when a worker informed the company that he was not subject to withholding.

When I inquired, the payroll company told me that it couldn't be done; that their computers wouldn't do it.

I had seen some of Dave Champion's work and so I contacted him. Dave gave me a crash course in how to deal with payroll companies. By the end of the day the payroll company admitted that their computer could do it, that it was perfectly legal, and that from that point forward the worker would be getting checks with no deductions.

While I was angry that the payroll company had lied to me, I was glad that Dave was able to show me how to compel them to meet our company's needs.
Leonard S.

My employer was very uncomfortable about not withholding from me. On my behalf, Dave Champion communicated with the company's in-house counsel and several other company executives. The company's attorney had nothing credible to offer in response to Dave's presentation, but continued to say that the company had to withhold or the company would get in trouble. He couldn't grasp the whole "nontaxpayer" thing. However at this point something unexpected happened. Dave's presentation had made so much sense to the other company executives that they overrode the attorney and agreed not to withhold from me. Within a few weeks some of them even joined me in not having any deductions taken out of their checks!
Heather W.

I'd been considering using Dave Champion's services for a while. Once I determined that I am a nontaxpayer, I hired Dave to speak to my employer and explain the reasons that I'm a nontaxpayer. While I'd made the determination for myself that I am a nontaxpayer, I'd seen enough of Dave's work to know that he would do a better job of presenting the information to the company than me.

The information that Dave provided to the company was well researched and impeccably presented. I'm a hard man to impress, but I have to admit that I was really impressed.

Dave and I held a series of conversations and written communications with the company owner. He's the sort of businessman who makes few decisions for himself, instead following the instructions of the "professionals" he retains. The company tried every kind of dodge. In the end, I insisted on a meeting with the owner, his CPA, his attorney, Dave, and me. The purpose of this meeting was for the CPA and attorney to put the law (if any) on the table and see how their "law" would stand up under the light of informed scrutiny. Amazingly, after all their statements about "being required by law", they refused to come to such a meeting and put the law on the table!

The bottom line is that the company did not change its approach toward me. However, it was well worth the money to see just how far the owner and his "professionals" would go to avoid being proven wrong. They were proven to be liars and cowards, and I'm putting my feelers out for a new job. I'll get a new job - they'll still be liars and cowards.

While my venture didn't succeed, no one could have done a better job than Dave at presenting the law and the facts on my behalf. He is well worth the cost.
Jeff T.

Dave Champion saved my business, my home, and my family's standard of living.

I had determined that I was a nontaxpayer back in the 1980s. I did not file any state or federal income tax returns for 10 years. One day an IRS officer waked into my business. He handed me a stack of paperwork and told me that if I didn't have the forms completed and turned in to him within 3 weeks, he'd seize my business, my home, my cars, and put me, my wife, and my 3 children out in the street. The IRS officer said that I owed $500,000.00 in back taxes! I was mortified. I could barely breath. I couldn't eat or sleep. Fortunately, I ended up speaking with Dave Champion.

Upon my certifying to Dave that I'd not been involved in any taxable activity, and that I was a nontaxpayer for the years I hadn't filed, Dave helped me draft a 3-page letter, which we sent directly to the IRS officer.

I'm pleased (to say the least) that several years have now gone by and I've never heard another word from the IRS. I can only imagine how different my life would be today if Dave hadn't been there for me. Knowing what I know now, I can't imagine why any businessman, who is a nontaxpayer, wouldn't want to work closely with Dave. The alternative is too costly. I know - I almost had to pay it.
Jason H.

I've been a client of Dave Champion's for about two years. During that time I've relied on him for a wide variety of issues. I've gone to Dave on issues as diverse as banking concerns and reviewing business contracts. In the past I would have gone to an attorney for my advice, but attorneys don't know what Dave knows, and frankly, I've come to distrust attorneys. In most cases they're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Not only does Dave provide me with the solid information I need to make sound decisions, but every issue is considered from the perspective that I do not engage in activities that give rise to federal or state liability. Long ago I determined that I'm a nontaxpayer. Dave's guidance helps me live it successfully. I consider his service invaluable.
John T.

Nontaxpayer</FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#800000 size=2>
http://www.nontaxpayer.org/
</FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>

</FONT></FONT>
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2004, 12:51 AM
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weishaupt1776 weishaupt1776 is offline
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W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

Kaos, check out Tora's links above.

also check out pfshield.com.

scroll down to the red pill & eat it.

They suggest setting up an LLC & you being the employee of it while the LLC is subcontracting you out.

The employer would then make it a 1099 situation in which there would be no withholding.

This sounds good except, if I am not mistaken(which I could be), that an LLC is a limited liability corporation which is chartererd through the STATE.

But you could also set up a trust. Go here.

The Lord has blessed me with a 1099 situation, but I am always on alert in case a w-4 situation may arise & also to help set some of the captives free, Halleluja!- I'm just as curious as you are.
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2004, 09:50 PM
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W-4 NOTICE TO TERMINATE

Thanks ma man. I'm checking out Dave's site now. Those testimonials look pretty good.



I did try to approach my withholding agent myself with a Statement of Citizenship. Not sure if you are familiar with that but the law says that only non-resident aliens are to have taxes withheld and that as long as someone hands the withholding agent a statement of citizenship, he can rely on that as being true and stop withholding of course the agent got the legal department in on it and I talked to the lawyer myself and explained that it was the law but told that the law is up for interpretation (which I said was BS). Any law that can not be understood by a person of average intelligence in void for vagueness. He told me that he would send a letter to the IRS and ask if it was ok to stop withholding.



Well of course the IRS never wrote back and they kept withholding. At that poiint I didn't know what else to do. So I just claimed 7 on the Fed side and exempt on the state side. The state doesn't check up on exempt w-4's. The Fed does though. What is the max number of exemptions before they are sent to CA for review? Do you know? I thought it was 9 but I'm not sure.



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