W-4 decisions

[rhexis]

So far with my new job my company has agreed to except my W-4 marked 'exempt' but said they will have to remit it to the IRS. This is standard, correct? They have requested my SSN for the w-4 and said I they can't process paychecks without it either.

I'm thinking of calling save-a-patriot as I read online someone's testimonial of s-a-p clearing w-4 issues up for them. Any reason not to contact these folks?

I think the only reason I'm still hired is that I am contracted out to another company and have it would not please that company if I was fired for for no apparent good reason.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone can vouch for s-a-p, if it's standard to send in exempt w-4's, and if I should be worried if they do.

The saga continues....

Rhexis

[scottinalaska]

Rex,

A couple of things: Save a Patriot is a fine organization in my opinion. Good stuff.

The other is that it is highly illegal to fire someone for not disclosing a SS number. Were you hired for your skills or was it dependent upon filling out a paper? Tell them that you are not signing up for the government's retirement program and thus, their withholding will not be necessary. If they can grasp this, they will actually save their own company money by not having to make "payroll" taxes on you. This enables them to keep what amounts to 8% of your paycheck instead of mailing it away. I think that's the right percentage. As an employer, I tell my workers they can take care of their own retirement and I am not forcing that benefit on them like many employers do.

YOU are responsible to pay your own taxes. YOU will pay any taxes for which you deem you are liable. Since when does the company have to pay your taxes and retirement? Only when you direct them to through the silly paper.

Now they send your EXEMPT status to the IRS, your company will soon receive an unsigned letter from the vIpeRS telling them to withhold at the maximum amount(one dependent, YOU!) and mail them the money. Just a coming reality, so you better prepare accordingly.

Scottinalaska

[rhexis]

Thanks for the response.

For anyone who is interested. They are now threatening to terminate me and have dismissed religious reasons as false because I stupidly put the SSN down on a background check form, even though I specified that the SSN wasnt to be used anywhere else.

They cited:

"Employers who fail, without reasonable cause, to comply with reporting
requirements will be liable for penalties based upon the number of
employees (A) who were not reported, (B) who were not reported completely
and accurately, (C) who were reported using invalid media and/or (D) who
were reported late."

Yet I had already cited that AND the part of the code that says they only have to ask and won't be fined if I sign an affadavit, etc..

I also cited two court cases where companies have lost in similar situations as well as the Privacy Act.

What the heck does it take to make these people listen to you?? I'm implying I will file suit if they fire me, which I will. I hope that does it.

Rhexis

[PANICPASS]

File a regular W-4 with your SSN and get a refund of all taxes paid the way "Cracking the Code" by Pete Hendrickson advises. Some will disagree with me on that because they believe that signing government forms gives the IRS jurisdiction. Well, that may be true, but how many people are given a CHOICE to sign or not to sign. No one that I know of.

My advice is sign it and get a refund at the end of the year using Pete Hendrickson's method. www.losthorizons.com Fighting the employer on this issue is not worth the headache. IMO, employers believe you should pay because everyone pays. I think it all boils down to jealousy and beliefs!
hee hee.

[TheBlackTruth]

NO SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER OR W-4 REQUIRED.

The Internal Revenue Code section 6109(a)(3) states:
Any person required under the authority of this title to make a return, statement or other document with respect to another person shall request from such other person, and shall include in any return, statement, or other document, such identifying number as may be prescribed for securing proper identification of such other person.
26 US. C 6109(a) (3). (Emphasis added).

The regulation interpreting section 6109 provides:
If he does not know the taxpayer identifying number of the other person, he shall request such number of the other person. A request should state that the identifying number is required to be furnished under authority of law. When the person filing the return, statement, or other document does not know the number of the other person, and has complied with the request provision of this paragraph, he shall sign an affidavit on the transmittal document forwarding such returns, statements, or other documents to the Internal Revenue Service so stating.
26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) (In part, emphasis added).

If a document must be filed and the employer has been unable to obtain the number but has made the request, then the employer needs only to include an affidavit stating that the request was made.

The Internal Revenue Code section 6723 states:
In the case of a failure by any person to comply with a specified information reporting requirement on or before the time prescribed therefor, such person shall pay a penalty of $50 for each such failure,
. . . . 26 U S C 6723. (In part).

However, Internal Revenue Code section 6724(a) provides for a waiver of any penalties assessed under the Code upon a showing of reasonable cause. Section 6724(a) provides:
No penalty shall be imposed under this part with respect to any failure if it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause and not to willful neglect.
26 U S C. 6724(a). (Emphasis added).

Since the Internal Revenue Code provides a waiver of any penalties for "any failure" to obtain a social security number, it is not mandatory that you obtain such number or supply such number to the Internal Revenue Service. The fact that an individual will not sign a tax form or supply a number after you have made the request, eliminates willful neglect on your part.

Even under the Immigration Reform and Control Act, codified at 8 U S C. 1324a(b), documents other than a social security card can be used for identification purposes; a birth certificate being one of them.

NO FORM W-4 IS REQUIRED.

Just like the request for a social security number (or "taxpayer" identifying number), the Internal Revenue Code merely requires that the employer request a Form W-4 (or withholding exemption certificate) from each employee. The Code instructs that in the event the employee does not furnish such certificate, such employee shall be considered as a single person. Note that the Internal Revenue Code only relates to those persons who are subject to (liable for) a revenue tax.
See Economy Plumbing and Heating Co. v. United States, 470 F.2d 585, cited below.

Just like the social security number, you will also see that there is no absolute requirement for withholding exemption certificates or withholding allowance certificates (such as Form W-4) required to be signed by an individual in order for him or her to obtain a job. You will see that such forms apply only to individuals who are claiming some sort of statutorily authorized allowance or exemption.

The Internal Revenue Code provides:
On or before the date of the commencement of employment with an employer, the employee shall furnish the employer with a signed withholding exemption certificate relating to the number of exemptions which he claims, which shall in no event exceed the number to which he is entitled.
26 U S C 3402(l)(2)(A). (Emphasis added).

Here, the language is clear. Such a form is required only in the event some sort of exemption is claimed. Please be advised that I make no claim at all . I do not claim "exempt", I do not claim "zero" and I do not claim any other number of exemptions. I simply make no claim at all. I submit that you will find no law requiring an individual to complete such certificate if such individual makes no claim. It goes without saying that an individual cannot be forced to claim a "benefit" or be forced to sign a government form which is not absolutely required by law in order to contract for a job.

Furthermore, the regulation issued pursuant to 26 U S C. 3402(f)(2)(A) states that an employer is only required to request a "withholding exemption certificate" and tells you precisely what to do in the event you are not furnished such certificate. …On commencement of employment. . . . . . The employer is required to request a withholding exemption certificate from each employee, but if the employee fails to furnish such certificate, such employee shall be considered as a single person claiming no withholding exemptions.
26 CFR 31.3402(f)(2)-l(a). (In part, emphasis added).


Since the penalty seems to be $50 for violation, I would lay $50 on the table and tell them to proceed!

-BT

[PANICPASS]

The problem is never the law. The problem is always who to BELIEVE. The law is clear, but when the IRS contacts the employer, the employer's fears usually surface.


Here's a letter I receive from IRS when they told my employer to disregard my exempt W-4 and take taxes out as single 0.


Dear Ms. PanicPass:

This is in response to your correspondence dated March 10, 2003. It is the policy of the IRS not to respond to letters of the type you have written on a point-by-point basis. This letter advises you that arguments in your letter are completely without merit. Moreover, the arguments contained in your correspondence have never been successful in federal court.

<<snip>> ( irrelevant paragraph by IRS )

In addition, IRC 6001 requires both employees and employers to comply with the rules and regulations set forth by the Secretary of Treasury. Taken together, the above IRC provisions give the secretary authority to issue regulations to enforce the withholding provision of th IRC Section 3402. Regulation 31.3402(f)(2)-1(g)(1) requires employers to submit to the IRS any withholding certificate (form W-4) which claims exempt status or more than 10 exemptions.

Reulation 31.3402(f)(2)-1(g)(5)(ii) gives the IRS the authority to determine that a withholding certificate is correct. Information is requested from the taxpayer and reveiwed to make this determination. It is well settled in the courts that the IRS, rather than the taxpayer, makes the determination as to what information and documentation is needed to satisfy IRS's investigatory purposes.

We will be happy to assist you if you have further questions or problems regarding your Form W-4.

[rushpat]

Is it really the company that is threatening you, or certain know-it-alls in the human resources or payroll dept that is threatening you?

Perhaps you should consider a lawsuit against the person(s) that is trying to get you to commit perjury. Not against the company, but the guy himself. That way, you don't threaten the company, and he can't use company resources for his defense.

[rhexis]

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't get to handle this the way I wanted to. I was completely broke so I had provided my SSN and sent in a w-4 marked exempt, signed under duress and all rights reserved. I needed to get paid. If this was more than a 1 year contract position and I had money I'd have fought it till the end. Oh well, I signed exempt on my last position and hadn't heard anything so far from the irs. I just wanted to get to the point where I don't send anything to the federal gov, no papers and no money. Or at least not until the country is run by a ethical and non-fascists administration. I reserved the right to change my status when I get out of social security, which seems like a daunting task.

Rhexis.

[KaosTheory]

You should be prepared to get a notice within a few years maybe less saying that your w-4 has been reviewed and that you are not allowed to claim exempt because your pay is above a certain level. Your withholding agent will then withhold at single zero (the max).

Next, you will probably be informed that there is a notice of tax lien and your withholding agent will also start sending off 25% of your pay to them as well. Same goes for state.

So far, the only thing that you can to do is sue the withholding agent for acting on a notice without a court order.

It's rough going.

[Ecclesiastes]

"The employer is required to request a withholding exemption certificate from each employee, but if the employee fails to furnish such certificate, such employee shall be considered as a single person claiming no withholding exemptions." 26 CFR 31.3402(f)(2)-1(a).

That means that, if you don't submit a valid W-4, the employer can still withhold, just at a higher rate.

And the courts have allowed employers to fire employees who fail to provide proper W-4s. In Edwards v. Stringer, No. 03-2207 (10th Cir. 2/12/04), the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals held (in an unpublished opinion) that the firing of an employee did not violate the employee's civil rights when the employee refused to provide a signed Form W-4 with her Social Security number. The court stated:

"Moreover, State Stores [the employer] is not only authorized, but also legally bound to withhold and pay federal income taxes to the Internal Revenue Service. See United States v. Lee, 455 U.S. 252, 261 (1982) (upholding the constitutionality and uniform application of the Social Security Act, which requires employers to withhold social security taxes from employees' wages, even when such withholding conflicts with an employer's or employee's religious or other beliefs); Payne v. Dixie Elec. Co., 330 S.E.2d 749, 750 (Ga. App. 1985) ("an employer is not only authorized but required to withhold federal income taxes from his employees' pay"); Wilhelm v. United States, 84-1 USTC 1700, *3 (E.D. Tex. 1983) (same). Thus, Stage Stores' compliance with its legal obligation to withhold taxes from its employees is not a violation of Edwards' civil rights."