W-4 and the need to fill one out?

[StarTet]

Weis, KaosTheory:

Weis,
"The best way to go first off is establishing a pure trust w/ LLC's."

Briefly, since I dont know what a pure trust w/LLC is, can you tell me what it is and what it does? Can a ?regular" person with a SSN, DL and other adhesions use this? Where in sui juris can I get a deeper understanding? Not that I have assets, I'm utterly broke. Thanks.

Also I read somewhere (maybe here at sui juris) that it is possible to open bank accounts out of the US without needing to provide a SSN. What I'd like to naively ask is whether it is possible to open an account that can not be siezed or monitored by the US/IRS? And can a person living in this country still get convenient acess to their money?

KT:
Are you doing something similar to Cracking the Code" or the same? My new employers handed me an authorization for direct deposit, a W-4 and a Form I-9. Since I have been holding off all week giving them their w-4, this is my last weekend to research before I tell them I don't want to provide one. I think if they make me submit one, I will provide it attached to an affidavit declaring that my submission of that form is in no way giving permission for withholding or agreeing that my payments are 'wages' under IRC 3402/3121. I believe this is the way that Cracking the Code says to start this process. But I am curious as to what kind of adhesion or exposure I am making by filling out and submitting a Form I-9 (Employment Eligability Verification)

Thanks All,

StarTet

[scottinalaska]

Startet,

Did we miss something here? What if you do NOT have a bank account? How can they mandate direct deposit if there is no account in which to place it?
I do not think an affordable bank account can exist here in America unless it is with a soveriegn Indian tribal account that cannot be levied at the vIpeRS' whim. And once it is gone, it is gone.
Yes, they will always want your SS number and unless you have time and not a job on your hands, the time it takes to do round number nine or ten with a banker is simply not worth it.
I do have a bank account with minimal in it for that reason alone.
But, for the DD purpose, perhaps you could explain you simply do NOT have a bank account and you have chosen to work in cash and CC's.
s

[test]

This guy has an explanation for the i-9 form here:

http://www.originalintent.org/edu/i-9.php

Beware, other members in the sui juris forum mentioned that the guy took their money and never delivered the services promised, still the explanation about the i-9 form I think offers some good insights about it.

But the issue may come down, like in the w-4 form, that your employer may not want the trouble to verify if the forms and the "law" applies to you, he might say that is the way things are done and they may not want any trouble or whatver, then you have to decide if you want to take the job with these conditions or look elsewhere or take the employer to court.

At my work I tried signing the i-9 using "without prejudice" and they would not accept the form "with anything other than the signature", after a few comings and goings I ended up signing without the rights reservation when the pressure started getting too high, I know, I chickened out but I am not ready yet to defend my position so I need to study more to take a stronger stand.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[StarTet]

Scottin Alaska:

I do have a bank account. I did not mean to give the impression I did not. Also, they are not mandating I have direct deposit. When I was hired they simply gave me a forms to fill out authorizing DD, proof of elegibility to work and the w-4, just standard "welcome package". It is my choice as to whether I recieve a check or get DD. As I need money badly the moment, having my account credited immediately could save me from a bad situation that is looming. Personally, I don't really care if I recieve a check or DD.

"Yes, they will always want your SS number and unless you have time and not a job on your hands, the time it takes to do round number nine or ten with a banker is simply not worth it. I do have a bank account with minimal in it for that reason alone."

Sorry, I dont know what your talking about here. Could you clarify?

My questions in my most recent post were in reagrds to something that Weis said about pure trusts/LLCs. I dont know what they are but I felt moved to ask. That question was unrelated to my taxing/W-4 questions that started this thread. But in addition I was intrigued with the notion of having a bank account out of the US where I could do my banking needs and leave only a minimal amount in a US bank.

I don't like banks.

Perhaps such a possiblity is untrue, that is why I asked but it was unrelated to my desire to minimize or stop withholdings from being taken from my paycheck.

Startet

[StarTet]

Test:

Why did you sign the I-9 "without prejudice"? What is so scary about this form. I don' ever rememeber filling one out in the past. My old job lasted 15 years and in 1989 I dont remember filling out an I-9. How am I screwing myself by submitting this form? I am not in a postion right now to be dificult with them. I need a job, so like you I will do what I need to until I'm more knowledgable.

But after spending a few days in this website, hell, I'm afraid to fill anything out from the government.

Like you I am just learning and am far from "getting rad" in the court room or getting in over my head. In the mean time I can quietly study and just go with the flow until such time that I decide to take on the horned beast. The tax issue came first for me so that is why I started asking questions in this thread.

thanks,

StarTet

[test]

I have read that signing "without prejudice" or "all rights reserved" is a reservation of rights, so when you signed something but there was not full disclosure of everything that it implies, you can claim that it is not a valid contract.

There is nothing scary about signing any goverment documents/forms the only thing is that by doing that you become "subject to their jurisdiction" and if later on you want to claim that you are not a US (corp) citizen how will you do it? You already filled up a form and checked a box saying that you are a US (corp) citizen and you signed it under penalty of perjury so you have no way to get around that, you filled up the form, you said you were a US (corp) citizen and you signed under penalty of perjury so you just became it "legally", it is probably the same with a drivers license, a marriage license, a w-4 or anything else that the goverment "offers".

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by StarTet

Weis, KaosTheory:


Briefly, since I dont know what a pure trust w/LLC is, can you tell me what it is and what it does? Can a ?regular" person with a SSN, DL and other adhesions use this? Where in sui juris can I get a deeper understanding? Not that I have assets, I'm utterly broke. Thanks.

Anyone can set them up
go to asaprotection.com
PM me if you think it's cool.

A trust is an organization whom has the rights to title of property which is managed by trustee, but the benefits of such property are enjoyed by you (beneficiary)
The LLC is a statutory animal which is good to use for the "in the box" stuff as far as the flow of equity goes in and/or out of the trust.

Originally Posted by StarTet

Also I read somewhere (maybe here at sui juris) that it is possible to open bank accounts out of the US without needing to provide a SSN. What I'd like to naively ask is whether it is possible to open an account that can not be siezed or monitored by the US/IRS? And can a person living in this country still get convenient acess to their money?

JJ Luna at howtobeinvisible.com has a report on Canadian banking

Happy Trails (insert coin)

[scottinalaska]

Startet,
Can't really happen. They ALL will require a Social Security number. Thus, the IRS WILL find it if they want it. If you find an account(will take some time most of us don't have) that you can open with minimal ID, then go for it and tell us about it!
That's all there. Thanks for being open minded, although I am sure the breeze sure is chilly these days!
scottinalaska

dont trusts have to pay taxes and at a higher rate than "people"?

[FrankBonin]

Hi folks. Been meaning to repond to this for sometime now. While doing some research, late 2002, I downloaded from the IRS site two charts that stated on them such things as: what kind of tax, and what forms where used for each tax, and some other things. Interestingly, the IRS used two charts to show this info, my guess, it was too revealing to combined on one. This is the best I can remember: Tax Class 5 = Gift and Estate Taxes, Forms = 1040, w2, w4 and 1099. Tax class 2 = Incomes Taxes, Forms: NO 1040, w2, w4 1099

Question? Did anyone se this on IRS/Gov website and if so did you save a copy? Would be great to post the rest here. I am looking through old files to se if I have hard copy of if I can find my downloaded copy.

If I remember it had to do with something like 6204 and 6209, or 6402 and 6409 of the IRS code.

Another interesting point as I understand it IRS pulled it!