Thank you hopper, scottinalaska and TommyGun for your replies.
Hopper:"The theory that, according to IRC 3401, only federal employees earn "wages" and thus are subject to withholding is nothing but tax protester garbage"
With all due respect hopper, one reason I lurk here and occasionally post is because there is a wealth of information that I never knew existed. I was once a brainwashed automaton of the syestem like everyone else. But this website is for people who in their own way are fighting back and no longer able to be apathetic or resigned to the abuse and control and fraud they see happening all around them.
If taxation issues were all a scam and part of tax protester garbage, then they would go away and not even be included as a topic on this board. But it appears there are people here at sui juris who are sucessfully implementing their rights and knowledge of taxation to avoid payiong more than they should, if at all.
I decided a while back that with what I was learning about our hidden legal, financial,political and banking history that if I just read about it and went to sleep, this information dies. At some point I felt I had to be responsible to either use this information to my advantage, or share it with others so they could wake up out of the matrix as well. If enough people do that......?
I did not get much useful response to the questions I asked at the start of my thread but I did make a vist to
www.losthorizons.com a website of Pete Hendrickson, author of "Cracking the Code". If you go there, you will see that many many people are showing proof that they are getting their tax withholding back from the government by using the procedure that P. Hendrickson advocates. Proof: they post their tax returns, their Form 4852 and the letter that they recieve from the IRS. Finally they post their pictures of the refund checks that match the amount of withholdings that were taken out of their checks throughout the year. I joined the group (email) for my state to trade information.
hopper, it looks that there might be something to this. I have already corresponded with one guy who just recieved a refund check from a past tax return (2001) from the state!
But I dont just want to roll over any more and assume the position. As with anything on this board and on the internet, one must do their due diligece to separate the wheat from the chaff, and so I watch the progress of many here at sui juris without their knowing it to see how they fare.
Tommy Gun: "either system head-on or attempting to drop out is only going to get you some VERY un-wanted attention. As of now, you see, those trains are still running...and there's no sense throwing yourself on the tracks just to save a few bucks or even worse...to prove a point."
TommyG, at this point I have not done anything regarding my W-4 because I haven't filled it out yet. That comes this week some time. Because I am not as knowledgeable as others on this website and due to time constraints, I will not be able to act as would have liked, getting a more thourough understanding of tax/legal/finanacial terms.
But since the CTC book seems to advocate an "above board" approach that uses the IRS's own code, it appears that they are only asking all parties to be law-abiding. That is their whole philosophy over there. No protester attitude or jargon. The only thing is that it appears that one must have withholding taken out during the year and then use a form to claim that the employer mischaracterized them as IRS defined 'wages' and thus 'taxable income'. That does not appear to be "taking on the system head-on" to me.
As for "dropping out", I do not know enough about dropping out to even attempt it. I have met some who have and they have even met with the IRS when they came calling and with just a conversation the IRS left and they have had no further problems. If I ever find out what they did or said I will let you and the forum know.
scottinalaska: truthfully, I do not feel comfortable telling my new employer that I refuse to fill out a W-4. Of course, I will ask and I'll receive the standard answer, "You have to". I asked this question about having the employer cooperate because my intent was to avoid having any withholdings taken out at all from my check. I see now it is not easily accomplished and it raises a lot of other questions with it.
Questions like how I can verify my income when aplying for certain programs like reduced income utility rates. But what about a home loan or other applications where they need to see proof of income? Techniquely, I would not have it because there would be no tax return if there were no W-4, W-2 .
As a new employee, the small office where I will work has been very helpful and friendly to me. I feel uncomfortable telling them that that "I dont have to pay income tax. Wages as defined by the IRS are only for federal employees, not the common man, I'm not filling out a W-4 for that reason, etc." I really don't know how to handle that one.
So I think I'll follow your advice and take the 9 allowances and use the "Cracking the Code" method to reclaim my withholdings at the end of the year.
However, if any body knows a way that I can still avoid withholdings deducted at the source, let me know. And keep your coments coming, for or against. It's how I learn.
Regards to all,
Phil
I Wish You Well
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