Cracking The Code is Successful!

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by PANICPASS

Only U.S. citizens are required to fill out government forms.

Where the heck did you get that notion??

[PANICPASS]

Where did I get that notion from? From employers, that's where. Ask any employer and they'll tell you that if you are a U.S. citizen with a social secuirty card, you are required. Now, Shoonra, what would you tell them if they told you that?

[lchesson]

Originally Posted by AndyK

This is really difficult: You have four possibilities: A, B, C, or D. You've eliminated three of them. What is left?

As to US citizenship, if, with a few specific exceptions, you were born within the geographic boundaries of one of the 50 states or the District of Columbia, then you have the right to claim US citizenship. If you choose to do otherwise, there are specific procedures for renouncing your citizenship.
If you need a definition, look it up.

Did you mean to say that one born within those boundaries is by default a U.S. citizen?

Otherwise, please explain how one would renounce citizenship that was never claimed by right.

[David Merrill]

AndyK is spinning yarns again...

Originally Posted by AndyK

As to US citizenship, if, with a few specific exceptions, you were born within the geographic boundaries of one of the 50 states or the District of Columbia, then you have the right to claim US citizenship. If you choose to do otherwise, there are specific procedures for renouncing your citizenship.

Your proclamation of citizenship establishes citizenship. Period. If you try to acquire citizenship territorially to a region you are not eligible to by birth or naturalization, try not to get caught.

This is why Congress had to pass the Expatriation Act on the eve of passing the Fourteenth Amendment. They had to show due diligence that nobody had to be a US citizen.

There is allegedly a Strategic Withdrawal process by Bernard Bershears and I know a fellow who paid for it and is all ready to sign and send it off. I warned him that Bernie lives in Central America and has been out of the country since acquiring the benefits of sovereign state citizen. There are the hazards of following form too - form = forum - welcome to the forum. So my friend has been thinking it over for weeks now.

Meanwhile understanding that citizenship comes exclusively from your declaration (typically seeking benefits) is a lot cheaper.

Best I can tell AndyK would shut up if he got a real law degree. Then he would understand why so few real attorneys expose the System's secrets around here.


Regards,

David Merrill.


P.S. Read about citizenship in the Book of Acts, starting at about Chapter 18.

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by lchesson

Did you mean to say that one born within those boundaries is by default a U.S. citizen?

Otherwise, please explain how one would renounce citizenship that was never claimed by right.

In general, yes. According to the Constitution "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Note that, prior to the 14th, there was no definition of citizenship in the Constitution.

8USC1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

[lchesson]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lchesson
Did you mean to say that one born within those boundaries is by default a U.S. citizen?

Otherwise, please explain how one would renounce citizenship that was never claimed by right.

In general, yes. According to the Constitution "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Well, that's not exactly what you wrote, and I would agree with the original words:

then you have the right to claim US citizenship.

Would you agree that the Kingdom of Heaven 'could' fall within the self-governing dominion “foreign state” status of 8USC1101(14) ? Why or why not?

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by lchesson

Well, that's not exactly what you wrote, and I would agree with the original words:



Would you agree that the Kingdom of Heaven 'could' fall within the self-governing dominion “foreign state” status of 8USC1101(14) ? Why or why not?

Only if it can be demonstrated where it exists.

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

This is why Congress had to pass the Expatriation Act on the eve of passing the Fourteenth Amendment. They had to show due diligence that nobody had to be a US citizen.

The Expatriation Act, July 27. 1868 (two weeks after the last needed ratification of the 14th Amendment), did not directly address efforts of people to avoid or divest themselves of US citizenship but instead addressed the issue of immigrants TO the US, and whose previous homelands were somehow trying to impose their will on those naturalized US citizens (and in some instances their children although born in the US), "it is necessary to the maintenance of public peace that this claim of foreign allegiance shouldbe promptly and finally disavowed." Further, these naturalized US citizens remained under US protection even while in foreign countries. (15 Stat 223)

There was subsequent legislation for US citizens who wanted to renounce their citizenship so as to become citizens or subjects of another country; it required them to travel abroad and fill out declarations of this intent at the US embassy abroad.

[PANICPASS]

Hey, Shoonra, I'm still waiting for your reply:


Where did I get that notion that only U.S. citizens are required to fill out government forms? From employers, that's where. Ask any employer and they'll tell you that if you are a U.S. citizen with a social secuirty card, you are required. Now, Shoonra, what would you tell them if they told you that?

[mnchicago]

Panicpass:

To which gov't forms are you referring?

There is no law I am aware of that an employer
requires you to fill out gov't forms as a condition of
employment.