Letter 2797

[rushpat]

2797 does a few things:

1) Finds your location (they will probably send this to several previous addresses, if you've got more than one address in the last five years on the national change-of-address database
2) Gets your signature that you are or are not at a place.
3) Gets your signature that you are the name listed in all capital letters.

If you do a database search (searching with google is better) on their webpage manuals, you'll see that they refer to it as teh R-U-There letter. It is the first step in what usually becomes a chain of letters.

I got a few here and there a while back. The last was nearly a year ago. Haven't heard a thing since. I think this is part of the RACS automated computer system. The code numbers would change. Usually, if you go more than 6 months without any follow up, you might not hear from them again for a long time.

Some say that you should respond so that they can't just send to the last location and claim that you were properly served. I'm not so sure. The part about having your signature on that thing bothered me. The W-4s and W-2s sent in have the mailing location. Why the signature part. If it is simply to update a database, why a signature? Sounds a bit too formal.

I'm assuming that if you haven't filed for 12 years, then you did file at one time, right? Did you get anything at all from them a year or two after the last filing, but with W-2s /1099s going to them?

It's up to you. If you truly believe that you have a tax liability, then you should do what is right.

You may want to see what their next step is.

[brozer5]

"TAKE THE PAIN!!!"

I know a patriot who gave the bad guys a BOE from Schwitzer for TWICE the
250k the bad guys wanted; and DEMANDED a REFUND of the BALANCE not due!!!

He wasn't alone: funny thing is some of the early guys got the DIFFERENCE!

And the ones who didn't have any semblance or words that related to "Treasury of the UNITED STATES" or similar on their BOE's, NEVER got prosecuted.

If I'm in error here, please let us/me know.

[theghost]

Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes

Some suggestions/observations for honestcitizen:

1. Do NOT, under any circumstances, pay any attention to any of the other "advice" you have received (and will receive) in this forum, because the regular posters to this forum are crazy goofballs who have never won a case in court, and would be criminally prosecuted themselves if they weren't so economically and politically irrelevant.

2. Yes, get a lawyer, and follow your lawyer's advice. Ask your lawyer to hire an accountant to do your tax returns for you so that the information you give the lawyer is protected by attorney-client privilege. (There is no accountant-client privilege.)

3. Get your financial records together so that you and your lawyer can file returns as soon as possible, regardless of whether or not you can pay the tax. The letter you received does not look like a criminal investigation, just a form letter generated to find out why you haven't filed a tax return. Believe it or not, the IRS is more interested in compliance that prosecution (and criminal prosecutions are expensive), so the IRS rarely prosecutes if returns are filed before a criminal investigation begins.

4. You said you worked for different companies, but didn't say if you were an employee or a contractor. If you were an employee (and received W-2s), you may owe very little tax, because of withholdings. (In fact, you may find that by failing to file you have lost money that you could have gotten back in refunds.) If you were a contractor (and received 1099s), you may owe tax, penalties, and interest.

Good luck.

ecclesiastes,
if this is how you feel about us "goofballs" here, why do you come here?? Do we entertain you? You are the true definition of a plant. Have you been through a tax trial, and has an attorney saved your butt? You actually think the attorney client privilege will protect you in court in a tax trial?? What planet are you from? Where do you get off making presumptions about the posters here never having any success in court, do you know everyone here intimately, including myself? Only bureaucrats, including attorneys and judges, make preposterous assumptions/presumptions such as these. Which one are you? Go back to quatloos, or wherever you came from and leave us goofballs alone.

[weishaupt1776]

honest citizen, the first move to make in your freedom pursuits is to place your assets in a non-statutory pure trust w/LLC's to complete the equity chain.

The slaveship admirals posting here scoff at pure trusts, but it has kept some very important things of mine and my friends' stuff from being seized.

If you are going to pay, do it in person w/ a 3rd party witness at the IRS office & demand a letter signed in pen and ink that that is the final amount you owe for those tax years. DO NOT LET THEM OFF THE HOOK.

After the proceeding, send an affidavit of the account of events signed by you and the witness and put a default clause at the end of it

[Skeptic]

honest citizen, the first move to make in your freedom pursuits is to place your assets in a non-statutory pure trust w/LLC's to complete the equity chain.

That is about the worst thing you could do, since "pure trusts" are a sham, a fraud, which would not protect you and would probably result in your criminal conviction. There has never been a court case when a "pure trust" somehow defeated the IRS. But there have been numerous cases when those who set up "pure trusts" went to jail. Here is more information on this scam:

<link removed by admin - no advertising allowed, particuarly for the attorney's site linked to by the poster>

Honestcitizen--I suspect strongly that the reason the IRS didn't "go after you" sooner is that you are employed by a company, and therefore have income tax deducted from your wages automatically. If this is the case, then you actually DID pay income tax for these last 12 years; if your salary is your only income, then it is likely you actually overpaid: if you had filed, you could have gotten a refund.

Yes, you should have filed, and, yes, you broke the law by not filing. But if the case is as I suspect, then your situation is probably possible to correct. It is not likely the IRS will insist on criminal prosecution in your case, especially if you actually overpaid, but merely that the paperwork be in order. Again, I am not saying this is actually the case--I don't know--I am just saying that your situation is by no means hopeless. Don't panic, go to a tax attorney and see.

[BOBT12]

Originally Posted by rushpat

2797 does a few things:

1) Finds your location (they will probably send this to several previous addresses, if you've got more than one address in the last five years on the national change-of-address database
2) Gets your signature that you are or are not at a place.
3) Gets your signature that you are the name listed in all capital letters.

If you do a database search (searching with google is better) on their webpage manuals, you'll see that they refer to it as teh R-U-There letter. It is the first step in what usually becomes a chain of letters.

I got a few here and there a while back. The last was nearly a year ago. Haven't heard a thing since. I think this is part of the RACS automated computer system. The code numbers would change. Usually, if you go more than 6 months without any follow up, you might not hear from them again for a long time.

Some say that you should respond so that they can't just send to the last location and claim that you were properly served. I'm not so sure. The part about having your signature on that thing bothered me. The W-4s and W-2s sent in have the mailing location. Why the signature part. If it is simply to update a database, why a signature? Sounds a bit too formal.

I'm assuming that if you haven't filed for 12 years, then you did file at one time, right? Did you get anything at all from them a year or two after the last filing, but with W-2s /1099s going to them?

It's up to you. If you truly believe that you have a tax liability, then you should do what is right.

You may want to see what their next step is.

emphasis added.

rushpat seems to be on the right track.

Only one Form 2797 is prepared covering an allegation of failure to comply with a notice issued as provided in IRC 7512, even though withheld income, social security tax, or collected excise taxes may be involved.

Form 2797 is prepared in triplicate, and must be approved by the compliance employee's group manager. One copy of the report is to be retained with the case file. The original and one copy are forwarded to the FRS for concurrence. Form 2797 will be prepared in quadruplicate for referrals of return preparers, see IRM 25.1.3.3.

The FRS will review Form 2797 to ensure the quality of the referral. The FRS will forward the original and two copies of reviewed Forms 2797 via Form 3210, Document Transmittal to their group manager (FRS G/M) for review and approval and retain a copy for his/her referral pending file.

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/ch01s03.html


Other information:

W-4's - 1040's - THE IRS & APRIL 15th, YOU BE THE JUDGE

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/taxes/UBDAJUDGE.htm

Originally Posted by BOBT12

emphasis added.

rushpat seems to be on the right track.
http://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/ch01s03.html

Other information:

W-4's - 1040's - THE IRS & APRIL 15th, YOU BE THE JUDGE

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/taxes/UBDAJUDGE.htm

There seems to be a little confusion about this form. There is one used internally when a criminal referral is made, and there's an outgoing RU There letter sent out after TDI or TDA notices are returned mail. They are sep I believe.

After learning more about the law this weekend, I have been in contact with several attorneys today, chosen one and filing a power of attorney so he can let them know about my situation and plans to come into full compliance.

It's going to be very expensive and time consuming, but I hope I can get on track quickly without being prosecuted or charged for an unintentional, but very serious obligation with very serious consequences.

Thanks for all the comments this weekend.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by honestcitizen

There seems to be a little confusion about this form. There is one used internally when a criminal referral is made, and there's an outgoing RU There letter sent out after TDI or TDA notices are returned mail. They are sep I believe.

After learning more about the law this weekend, I have been in contact with several attorneys today, chosen one and filing a power of attorney so he can let them know about my situation and plans to come into full compliance.

It's going to be very expensive and time consuming, but I hope I can get on track quickly without being prosecuted or charged for an unintentional, but very serious obligation with very serious consequences.

Thanks for all the comments this weekend.

Before you file PoA, make him sign a contract w/ you that he will get a letter signed underhand in pen & ink w/ the agents real name & employee ID number from the IRS that this is the final balance and payment schedule & that no more will be assesed or carried over into other years from that tax year

The attorney will come up w/some lie to tell you why that is not necessary

Call his bluff and say this is very important & that you will be seeking another attorney who will perform it

I have seen a friend of mine get sunk each year by not doing this due to a tax amount dispute such as yours

[theghost]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

honest citizen, the first move to make in your freedom pursuits is to place your assets in a non-statutory pure trust w/LLC's to complete the equity chain.

That is about the worst thing you could do, since "pure trusts" are a sham, a fraud, which would not protect you and would probably result in your criminal conviction. There has never been a court case when a "pure trust" somehow defeated the IRS. But there have been numerous cases when those who set up "pure trusts" went to jail. Here is more information on this scam:

<link removed by admin>

Honestcitizen--I suspect strongly that the reason the IRS didn't "go after you" sooner is that you are employed by a company, and therefore have income tax deducted from your wages automatically. If this is the case, then you actually DID pay income tax for these last 12 years; if your salary is your only income, then it is likely you actually overpaid: if you had filed, you could have gotten a refund.

Yes, you should have filed, and, yes, you broke the law by not filing. But if the case is as I suspect, then your situation is probably possible to correct. It is not likely the IRS will insist on criminal prosecution in your case, especially if you actually overpaid, but merely that the paperwork be in order. Again, I am not saying this is actually the case--I don't know--I am just saying that your situation is by no means hopeless. Don't panic, go to a tax attorney and see.

I cannot believe the amount of people still falling for the crap at quatloos. Skeptic, Do you know who runs quatloos? It's an attorney. An attorney who sells......you guessed it, STATUTORY TRUSTS! What else would he say about pure trusts? Have you ever used a pure trust? I have used them for years, and it sounds like Weis has as well, and they work beautifully. If your didn't, you, or the guru you hired didn't write it correctly. A properly written pure trust is nothing more than a contract, written in trust form. What do you think the Rockefellors, Kennedys, Vanderbuilts, Morgans, Carnegies (the list goes on and on...) use? Pure Trusts, for centuries. By the way, you will never find a case where a pure trust beat the IRS, one, because it would never be published, and two, a real pure trust would never end up in court, because IRS has absolutely no jurisdiction over them. Then you state "But there have been numerous cases where those who set up pure trusts went to jail". More regurgitated crap from quatloos. Name one, and then we'll study exactly why THAT individual allegedly went to jail. Your statements are extremely irresponsible at best, and downright harmful and damaging at worst. And where do you get off making legal determinations about honestcitizen, such as "Yes, you should have filed, and yes you broke the law by not filing"? You have no first hand knowledge and no authority to make such outragous claims. I hope you and ecclesiastes are very happy together over at quatloos. Stay there.

[Skeptic]

Skeptic, Do you know who runs quatloos? It's an attorney. An attorney who sells......you guessed it, STATUTORY TRUSTS! What else would he say about pure trusts? Have you ever used a pure trust? I have used them for years, and it sounds like Weis has as well, and they work beautifully

(Pats "theghost" on the head)

Suuuuure they work. I believe you. Of course.

Care to give any proof of this claim?

You see, quatloos! gives facts. It gives numerous court cases where people who used "pure trusts" were busted and went to jail.

What do we get from you? Claims that you--an anonymous person on the internet, unlike the editor of quatloos!--used these trusts and they "worked beautifully". Care to prove this? Any court cases where the "pure trust" promoter / user had won? Heck, care to give me your evidence that the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, etc. used such trusts "for centuries"? Wait, don't tell me: there aren't any such court cases because it's all "hidden", or the IRS "doesn't want you to know about it", or is was a "secret" way for the super-rich only, blah blah blah.

In other words, you expect me to buy the tall tale about how pure trusts "work beautifully" by giving me, as "proof", a taller tale about how this is the "secret" method the Rockefellers use. Sorry, not good enough.

Name one, and then we'll study exactly why THAT individual allegedly went to jail.

This, of course, is the flip side of your "evidence" that pure trusts work. The pure trust proponent has to explain away two embarrasing facts: 1). The total lack of any public record of the success of pure trusts, and 2). The overwhelming evidence for their failure.

We've already seen how you try to explain away the former: you claim you (or the Rockefellers) use them and they "work beautifully", without a shread of verifiable evidence except for your word. Now you're trying to attack #2: how do you explain the hundreds of "pure trust" promoters / users convicted ? Well, you just pretend that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM did SOMETHING ELSE wrong, so there is nothing wrong with the "pure trust" concept itself that could possibly be incorrect.

Sure. Makes sense. About as much sense as claiming that the earth is really flat, and it is just the case that there was something wrong with every single one of the hundreds of experiments that allegedly showed it is a sphere.