Filing Taxes = Contract to US Debt?

[VTyankee]

Does tax filing or paying taxes involve one in some sort of obligation for the US debt? By not filing or using the SS number, is a fellow free of surety, or putting one's money out to usury--as Proverbs warns about? Is not the contract a fraudulent one, based on FRNs, and other unbacked obligations--fraud nullifies all contracts, so at best, is not the issue finally whether the US government thinks a contract with it has been breached? Forgive the question, but it bothered me that a patriot said I was losing my salvation in filing.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

I'd say say: sort of. All tax systems are a form of accounting, neither bad nor good, just there.

It seems to be about the govt taking a due share of the profits from some kind of joint venture- so the ss# is an indicator. Can't be employed without one. But even if that license is active, it may not be in use at a given moment.

None of this is supposed to be such a big deal, its just business. Tax crimes are in the nature of frauds, which are penalized in general.

Stop deriving normal benefits from the public sources and the taxes disappear. Keep it administrative.

is not the issue finally whether the US government thinks a contract with it has been breached?

of course, the burden of prosecution is on the moving party.

usury

the Bible translation I have gives 'usury' as "taking the loan again". It can't be merely charging interest, because that could just be expressed in some other way.

I truly doubt the mathematical device of counting percentages is the problem. Maybe the law refers to a limit on claims derived from only lending credit

[ezrhythm]

Once saved one cannot lose their salvation.

Though by signing tax forms and submitting them, a believer is then yoking oneself with unbelievers and is also pledging an oath where as Christ said let your Yes be Yes and your No be No, anything more is from the evil one.

usury - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/usury
1archaic : interest
2: the lending of money with an interest charge for its use ; especially : the lending of money at exorbitant interest rates
3: an unconscionable or exorbitant rate or amount of interest ; specifically : interest in excess of a legal rate charged to a borrower for the use of money

Verily I say unto you, even partaking in the Federal Reserve Note scheme is sin.

[David Merrill]

Currency from the Fed is elastic. The notes issued are clearly only for Reserve Banks. If you have to agree to be a reserve bank in order to be gainfully employed, your remedy is right there too - redeem lawful money with your paychecks.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...04912516&hl=en

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Originally Posted by ezrhythm

Once saved one cannot lose their salvation.

Though by signing tax forms and submitting them, a believer is then yoking oneself with unbelievers and is also pledging an oath where as Christ said let your Yes be Yes and your No be No, anything more is from the evil one.

a better answer than mine. way better.

usury - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/usury
1archaic : interest
2: the lending of money with an interest charge for its use ; especially : the lending of money at exorbitant interest rates
3: an unconscionable or exorbitant rate or amount of interest ; specifically : interest in excess of a legal rate charged to a borrower for the use of money

I know, and that ranks with all the other age-old misconceptions out there, like "don't mix milk and meat", from the same Deuteronomy, when it really says "don't eat meat that is still milking" ie 'do not boil a lamb in it's mothers milk', a lamb that is still milking/nursing from its mother

Its not wrong, but its not right either, so it is misleading.

In a free market founded on liberty the price of credit would drop to the normal commission, a wage like anyone else's for equivalent value given. So clearly if there is an unconscionable or exorbitant rate or amount of interest that is a symptom of usury. But it's not the usury itself, which is a concept I don't rightly understand myself.

Verily I say unto you, even partaking in the Federal Reserve Note scheme is sin.

you might be right. especially the word "partaking", believing in it like the other idols- the heathen materialistic mentality.

However there is no inherent usury in the Federal Reserve System because the debts actually shrink through inflation, bankruptcy, subsidies, write-offs, re-finance and just ignoring their nonsense.

The problem is amortization, foreclosure, and vacant/underused land held in fee simple.

"Benjamin Tucker" from the late 19th century wrote some interesting essays about the free nature of money and land.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Currency from the Fed is elastic. The notes issued are clearly only for Reserve Banks. If you have to agree to be a reserve bank in order to be gainfully employed, your remedy is right there too - redeem lawful money with your paychecks.

still stuck with "gainfully employed"... how about 'successfully invested'?

[mrg]

LISTEN TO POUND READ "WITH USURA"

With Usura

With usura hath no man a house of good stone
each block cut smooth and well fitting
that design might cover their face,
with usura
hath no man a painted paradise on his church wall
harpes et luthes
or where virgin receiveth message
and halo projects from incision,
with usura
seeth no man Gonzaga his heirs and his concubines
no picture is made to endure nor to live with
but it is made to sell and sell quickly
with usura sin against nature,
is thy bread ever more of stale rags
is thy bread dry as paper,
with no mountain wheat, no strong flour
with usura the line grows thick
with usura is no clear demarcation
and no man can find site for his dwelling.
Stone cutter is kept from his stone
weaver is kept from his loom

WITH USURA
wool comes not to market
sheep bringeth no gain with usura
Usura is a murrain, usura
blunteth the needle in the maid's hand
and stoppeth the spinner's cunning.
Pietro Lombardo
came not by usura
Duccio came not by usura
nor Pier della Francesca; Zuan Bellin' not by usura
nor was "La Calunnia" painted.
Came not by usura Angelico; came not Ambrogio Praedis,
Came no church of cut stone signed: Adamo me fecit.
Not by usura St Trophime
Not by usura Saint Hilaire,
Usura rusteth the chisel
It rusteth the craft and the craftsman
It gnaweth the thread in the loom
None learneth to weave gold in her pattern;
Azure hath a canker by usura; cramoisi is unbroiled
Emerald findeth no Memling
Usura slayeth the child in the womb
It stayeth the young man's courting
It hath brought palsey to bed, lyeth
between the young bride and her bridegroom

CONTRA NATURAM
They have brought whores for Eleusis
Corpses are set to banquet
at behest of usura.

Canto XLV - Pound

[David Merrill]

One should examine how the general delivery-to-general delivery fee of 2 cents has never been raised because that would require notice to people in general. That would expose the jurisdiction around general delivery.

Likewise the $39 fee for filing a common law "miscellaneous" case in the US courthouse has not been raised for many years too.

See attachment.

Note how the Order for elastic currency of the Fed has been cancelled by the Strikethrough and redacted to Payment from the suitor's exemption in the 1933 gold seizure.

"Pay to..." not "Pay to the order of..."

Additionally I presumed the question in this thread's title has already been answered where the author may be genuinely asking if participation in private credit from the Fed is chattelizing of the American people. So read Congress describing the 1933 salvation of the Fed attached.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[VTyankee]

I would agree in theory and principle it should be possible to be free of the tax system if a lot of conditionals were met. Remember the bad old days when the IRS had wide latitude in prosecuting cases? Then came the Congressional hearings in 1997 and subsequent taxpayer bill of rights. I spoke with an IRS worker, who, queried on his work, said "its no fun anymore!" They have a lot less resources.
In terms of first principles, tradition, Bible law, etc., I have no problem with tax collectors doing their work, Matthew Levi did that job, Christ was (and is) a friend of them, I'm glad Al Capone was successfully prosecuted, I have known "pay-triot" wolves who do not pay taxes, rip off every one they can--if the tax police get them, when no one else has the guts to cite them, so be it. When I looked to homestead in northern New England, none of the patriots offered practical help, much hospitality, etc.--"you're on your own". What kind of Christianity is it where people aren't helping or working together? I would also reference the "first principles" in the appendix of CS Lewis' "Abolition of Man" where he ties together various ethical and moral principles of diverse cultures. The nine circles of Dante's Inferno also provide an ontological framework for judging categories of behavior and people.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by farmer_giles_of_ham

the Bible translation I have gives 'usury' as "taking the loan again". It can't be merely charging interest, because that could just be expressed in some other way.

So according to this definition, is taking out a loan to pay off an existing loan technically "usury" (kinda like what the IMF lures governments into doing all the time)?