ready to break

[Ice]

I refer you to the book by Johnny Liberty in regards to Land Patents.

Also, read the Summa Corp. case referred to elsewhere in this forum.

The point of asserting your rights in the patent is that the patent bars the government from ALL rights in the property FOREVER. Read it... the government is barred from ALL ADMINISTRATION regarding the property. Property taxes would be considered an attempt by the government to administrate over your property... to stake a claim on a property they do not own or have any control of whatsoever.

All benefits received by the people are derived from the excise taxes the people are burdened with in order to receive such benefits.

Which category of taxes does property tax fall under?

Ice

Originally Posted by Ice

I refer you to the book by Johnny Liberty in regards to Land Patents.

Also, read the Summa Corp. case referred to elsewhere in this forum.

The point of asserting your rights in the patent is that the patent bars the government from ALL rights in the property FOREVER. Read it... the government is barred from ALL ADMINISTRATION regarding the property. Property taxes would be considered an attempt by the government to administrate over your property... to stake a claim on a property they do not own or have any control of whatsoever.

All benefits received by the people are derived from the excise taxes the people are burdened with in order to receive such benefits.

Which category of taxes does property tax fall under?

Ice

Ice,

Thanks for the reply.

I have read both, perhaps I need to re-read.

You just said that it would be an attempt to administrate over your property so I am unsure. Property tax has historically been defined as a direct tax; however, I might think it would be excise. for 2 reasons.

1. The administrative one you clearly point out would be an obvious violation easy to ajudicate.

2. Several years ago I went to a local library (within the same county I inhabit), they wanted to check an ID or have a piece of mail etc. When I showed them they said it will be 300.00 frn's a year to check out books. I asked why. They replied because you are not within our taxing district. Oh . . . Ok, how and where is that tax levied? On you property tax bill sir on properties within our district. Does the district cover the whole county? No, and you're property is not situated within it, that's why you must be charged a fee.

So now I'm thinkin cool, just need to figure out how not to pay for those other services I don't want or even use like publik screwels which is the bulk of the tax, but if the registered voters decided to expand the library district because they want to use the library "for free", then I'm stuck payin for it even if I don't use it, because the majority wanted it whether I vote against or abstain because I'm not "registered".

Please clarify on what type it is, and I ask again, do you pay the vipers?

[citizensoldier]

Originally Posted by Ice

The point of asserting your rights in the patent is that the patent bars the government from ALL rights in the property FOREVER. Read it... the government is barred from ALL ADMINISTRATION regarding the property. Property taxes would be considered an attempt by the government to administrate over your property... to stake a claim on a property they do not own or have any control of whatsoever.

You are correct. The point I am making is property tax is not made on the land itself, but the appurtenances on the land (real estate). Where does such a tax gain authority? Terms of a contract. Sure, the land itself cannot have a lien from taxes, but the real estate can.

I am unclear as to why people assume that terms of a contract cannot attach obligations to things they feel are protected? If you agree to it, then you are subject to it.

Originally Posted by citizensoldier

You are correct. The point I am making is property tax is not made on the land itself, but the appurtenances on the land (real estate). Where does such a tax gain authority? Terms of a contract. Sure, the land itself cannot have a lien from taxes, but the real estate can.

I am unclear as to why people assume that terms of a contract cannot attach obligations to things they feel are protected? If you agree to it, then you are subject to it.

Ok I'm having a moment here. Where's the Contract? What is being exchanged? What where when why and how did I become obligated? Mortgages, and secured debt are easy. You were not forced to go to a bank and offer your "releastae" as collateral; it is truely and purely a voluntary act. (Whether is is actually valid based upon FRN's, signature credit funding, credit etc., is a different topic). I have read (Johnny Liberty, & Teamlaw.org) where the appurtenances are houses, trees, dirt, realestate, etc., all of which is claimed to be "removable from the land". If all this stuff is appurtenances and that is what the lien is on, then there is no point to a patent. It becomes in effect a blank paper by construction.

i.e. If I assert rights in the patent I get the "land" and likely some rights or equitable interest in appurtenances as well. I sell only the appurtenances, (the house, trees, water, dirt) and keep my patented "land", have the buyers remove their appurtenances from "my patented land" when they purchase those items, and then what? Live in a big hole that reaches from the center of the earth to who knows where in outerspace and now I can live free of an obligation to government cause I have no appurtenances that can be taxed contractually or otherwise?

That is why I have difficulty with some of this information. It is purely nutty in nature. "I can have a patent on my land, and it (land) is not taxable, but the appurtenances are taxable by having obligations attched thereto". Well the appurtenances (water, dirt, shelter, trees and natural resources to make stuff with, etc. etc.), IN REALITY are the basic building blocks of perpetuating our continued existence, ergo, some one else is claiming them and therefore your right to sustain your very existence so the patent is in reality an expensive piece of toilet paper.

I have NO MORTGAGE, I offered Gold or Silver, the seller wanted FRN's, I converted it, I have NO INSURANCE, I do not use the Publik Screwels, or library, or air port; I have no fire protection other than what my neighbors and myself are willing to volunteer and support by direct donation; I cannot vote because I refuse to "register", and I have a well documented claim to the original patent issued and signed by Andrew Jackson 10, Oct. 1833, in the 58th year of Independence Under the provisions of sale of public lands 24, April, 1820 with an Unbroken chain of ownership, from the original patentee to me, and the patent was even found documented in the records at the court house, (No need to go to the BLM, or archives).

Now please tell me just how, when, where, I am obligated to participate and support the political organization known as government other than by threat duress or coercion?

[citizensoldier]

Originally Posted by sagas4

Ok I'm having a moment here. Where's the Contract? What is being exchanged? What where when why and how did I become obligated? Mortgages, and secured debt are easy. You were not forced to go to a bank and offer your "releastae" as collateral; it is truely and purely a voluntary act. (Whether is is actually valid based upon FRN's, signature credit funding, credit etc., is a different topic). I have read (Johnny Liberty, & Teamlaw.org) where the appurtenances are houses, trees, dirt, realestate, etc., all of which is claimed to be "removable from the land". If all this stuff is appurtenances and that is what the lien is on, then there is no point to a patent. It becomes in effect a blank paper by construction.

i.e. If I assert rights in the patent I get the "land" and likely some rights or equitable interest in appurtenances as well. I sell only the appurtenances, (the house, trees, water, dirt) and keep my patented "land", have the buyers remove their appurtenances from "my patented land" when they purchase those items, and then what? Live in a big hole that reaches from the center of the earth to who knows where in outerspace and now I can live free of an obligation to government cause I have no appurtenances that can be taxed contractually or otherwise?

That is why I have difficulty with some of this information. It is purely nutty in nature. "I can have a patent on my land, and it (land) is not taxable, but the appurtenances are taxable by having obligations attched thereto". Well the appurtenances (water, dirt, shelter, trees and natural resources to make stuff with, etc. etc.), IN REALITY are the basic building blocks of perpetuating our continued existence, ergo, some one else is claiming them and therefore your right to sustain your very existence so the patent is in reality an expensive piece of toilet paper.

I have NO MORTGAGE, I offered Gold or Silver, the seller wanted FRN's, I converted it, I have NO INSURANCE, I do not use the Publik Screwels, or library, or air port; I have no fire protection other than what my neighbors and myself are willing to volunteer and support by direct donation; I cannot vote because I refuse to "register", and I have a well documented claim to the original patent issued and signed by Andrew Jackson 10, Oct. 1833, in the 58th year of Independence Under the provisions of sale of public lands 24, April, 1820 with an Unbroken chain of ownership, from the original patentee to me, and the patent was even found documented in the records at the court house, (No need to go to the BLM, or archives).

Now please tell me just how, when, where, I am obligated to participate and support the political organization known as government other than by threat duress or coercion?

If you don't have any contractual obligation that subjects you to property tax, then you aren't liable for it. Why are you suffering from a "moment"? If some sort of corporate authority thinks you are liable for it, then you must rebut the presumption and protect your rights (you may have to go to court). Heck, you are having a problem understanding the situation, so what makes you think some municipal pinhead will understand it. Regardless of their understanding, the law is what it is. Of course, you must know the law before you can use it.

[Ice]

Actually, I don't pay the vipers... but I don't own the land I'm sitting on. The owners of the land have been digging for the patent ... and are not having any luck. I would assist them if they requested I do so.

There are a few other things I would have liked to go into... but... I'm going to make this a fast visit ... too much going on the last few days ... kinda wore out.

Ice

ICE,

I know we have had some disagreements and heated exchanges in other posts and threads, but please know, I truely do appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I learn a great deal from our exchanges as I'm sure others do as well. I am simply trying to figure out how to exercise my rights without resorting to violent exchanges with the bastards and comprehend.

Rest up, and be well friend.

Originally Posted by citizensoldier

If you don't have any contractual obligation that subjects you to property tax, then you aren't liable for it. Why are you suffering from a "moment"? If some sort of corporate authority thinks you are liable for it, then you must rebut the presumption and protect your rights (you may have to go to court). Heck, you are having a problem understanding the situation, so what makes you think some municipal pinhead will understand it. Regardless of their understanding, the law is what it is. Of course, you must know the law before you can use it.

Thanks C,

My moment of brain drain has passed. Your comments make sense.

Originally Posted by Ice

We're kinda off the beaten path here... this is good country. The hunting is great. We tapped into an underground spring and we won't have to worry about being short on water.

The fact that the members are spread out across the country is neither here nor there. macerico, I'll bet you have friends or family that might be interested in something like this... the same goes for the rest of the members. And the members can form their own coalition(s), deciding on a where and how to fulfill this goal. Like I said, it's something to think about.

At the moment I'm thinking about electricity... generating it ourselves. We have a canal that runs along our property... but it doesn't run all that fast. We also have good winds. There is a river across a field from us (land owned by a friend). We seem to have plenty of options for generating our own electricity. Generating it is one thing... storing it is the next step. If anyone has any ideas on these issues, I'm all ears.

Ice

Ice, about to use my muzzleloader today or tommorrow. Never took the time to get profficient with my bow. Have you seen the posts by Palani in Survival-Power generation sites. A used microturbine may provide enough electricity to power 8-10 houses. I would presume each house would need an array of batteries to store the electricity. Then you would have to have all the houses wired together. I don't know how tough that would be. Then you have to power the turbine with natural gas which you would still have to pay for and be dependent on unless you use biodiesel or some other gas. that section also has previous posts for solar power and discussions about batteries, etc.

[Ice]

Still bow season here. My brother-in-law has a muzzle loader... he'll be using it as soon as the season opens. There's a buck he's been after... hasn't got close enough for the bow. He saw it again this evening. I think it's teasing him.

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.

Ice