Titles and Property Tax

[summergarden]

When we puchase a house, usually we sign our offer to purchase, and other documents, giving our autograph. Next thing we know, papers are created and our name appears on the Deed, Title as that FICTITIOUS CORPORATE ENTITY.

The County, then, in turn gets this information from the recordings, and sends their "ANNUAL PROPERTY TAX BILL", and it is sent to that FICTITIOUS CORPORATE ENTITY whose name appears, to the address( location) of the property owner of record ( mind you that on the Deed the property is described as Lot No.______ and Tract No._______ in most populated areas)

(Or, if in rural townships, it may be described by Township, Range and Section)

However, your name and location is always converted to that FICTITIOUS, CORPORATE ENTITY at some FICTITIOUS ADDRESS.

How can this be corrected?

As for myself, I sent back these Annual Tax Bills for 4 years with notification that no such entity existed at that location, and interest kept accruing and the property tax debt kept increasing, however after 5 years my property would have been in jeopardy of being sold at a tax sale.... so I finally broke down and paid all of it including interest because I didn't know what else to do.

How do you bring your private property out of the corporate side?
Anybody have any knowledge on this subject?

Summergarden

Originally Posted by summergarden

When we puchase a house, usually we sign our offer to purchase, and other documents, giving our autograph. Next thing we know, papers are created and our name appears on the Deed, Title as that FICTITIOUS CORPORATE ENTITY.

snip

However, your name and location is always converted to that FICTITIOUS, CORPORATE ENTITY at some FICTITIOUS ADDRESS.

How can this be corrected?

snip

How do you bring your private property out of the corporate side?
Anybody have any knowledge on this subject?

Summergarden

>>i havent done this yet, but i have been putting together somethin to put them into court to show how and why they are taxin home ownership. how is it a business.

[gldskr]

You have to keep saying to yourself - Its only a contract, Its only a contract. Find the contract that makes you liable for the tax and the problem is solved. Unfortunatly those contracts are embedded in the numerous documents we've unwittingly signed over the years and are difficult to uncover.My guess would be that the deed is the culprit. Most real property is held with possessary title only and only warrants enjoyment of use. It is the use of the property that is being taxed not the ownership. Think of it like rental property. Doesn't the renter ultimately pay all the costs associated with his tenancy, including property taxes? The deed is the lease agreement that allows the state to charge their annual rent.

[fulltitle]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Hmm you might be right re: "Its the deed." That may be what turns you into tenants and puts the property in the hands of some kind of trustees.

[KiteKaze]

I am currently in the process of selling my house and have been doing some digging to try to determine exactly how i should contest the excise tax of over 5 thousand dollars that the government is going to claim is due.

Note that an excise tax is a tax on a priviledged action.

After much digging, there are only a couple of possibilities...

either (a) I do not have an inalienable right to property
or (b) It is not my property and I am paying an excise tax on making money from selling the right to use some third parties property to another person.

The only way I could see (a) being true would be if somehow I have signed away my inalienable right to own property. While this is a possibility (SSN, Post Office, etc), I am thinking that (b) is the real culprit.

After much digging, this turned up...
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Washington Administrative Code
Washington Administrative Code 458-12-010

..."real property" includes but is not limited to the following:
(10) All life estates in real property, whether created by grant or a reservation. A person has such a life estate when he has a right to the possession, occupation and use of a piece of realty, and to the crops, rents and profits produced by it, during his or her natural life.

(11) All possessory rights in realty which are coextensive with the natural life of their holder. Such possessory rights are analogous to leases, and since leases for life are realty, possessory rights for life are also realty.
----------------------

These are the two definitions that fit the second possibility I noted above. Such being the case, by purchasing "realty", I established a life long lease to some undisclosed 3rd parties property.

I have little doubt that the 3rd party in question is the state.

Such being the case, perhaps your state has something along the same lines...and you also just paid a good sum of money to lease "your property" from the state.

Fortunately, there should be a couple of ways to fix this situation.

i. The first would be to find out the proper method of giving proper notice in your state as to your property being yours. (clear title back to the original patent) I would assume that the state would not step up and claim the property as it might shine too much light on what they are doing.

ii. Another possibility would be to look over your paperwork and see if it clearly states that you are simply leasing the property. Also, see if you can get any statement from the title company that noted the property was unencumbered. Once you have done so, give (someone? maybe the accesser or treasurer?) notice that the property is your private property, you lawfully purchased the property, the property was attained via contract between you and the previous owner, and the title company noted that the property was free of encumberance. Such being the case, the property is yours by right and, being yours, is not taxable unless either (a) the state has lawful claim to the property or (b) you have willfully contracted your inalienable right to own property away to the state.

Further, affirm that you have never willfully signed any valid contract giving up any of your inalienable rights and that the contract to purchase your property was between yourself and the party that transfered it to you.

If uncontested, you should then be able to notice them that
(a) they are unlawfully taxing your lawfully owned private property.
(b) doing so is ( corruption of blood? theft? something else?)
(c) doing so violates their oath to the constitution
(d) this can be remedied by correcting your properties assessment to note that it is "private property" and not subject to tax.

------
Note: I could be way off base here...but this is what I am working on for myself. If I am understanding things properly, this should force the state to either (a) show itself to be the rightful owner (or have rightful claim) or (b) show the contract that it claims you gave your rights up in.

I am expecting neither to be done as (a) likely leaves them liable to a suit of fraud, conspiracy, or such and (b) is easily refutable (invalid ab inito due to fraud) unless the contract actually does clearly state that you gave up your rights to own property via some contract.

If not rebutted in a timely manner, that shows admission that you are the lawful owner of said private property.

I am still cleaning this up a bit, but it looks like this is the reason that the state is so big on realters...Use the lawyers to suck the blood from the people in court. Use the realters to suck the blood from the people directly. If realty is truly a lease interest (which it appears to be), then the problem is buying realty without properly specifying terms used in the contracts provided.

Again, don't take my word for it...this is just what I have gleaned from my digging so far.

Even more damning:
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Washington Administrative Code 458-12-045

WAC 458-12-045 Listing of real property -- Contracts for sale of public lands. Whenever any real property belonging to the United States of America, the state of Washington or any county or municipality is sold under an arrangement whereby title is reserved in the grantor and use and possession goes to the grantee, such property shall be listed as real property in the name of the grantee rather than the governmental instrumentality.

Any improvements existing on the property at the time the contract for sale is entered into or which are subsequently added after said contract shall likewise be listed as real property in the name of the grantee. (Rule derived from AGO 6-24-1947; PTB No. 167, 8-21-1947.)
----------------------

Even if they do step up and show that yes, buying "real estate" via a "realtor" is simply leasing rather than buying, then I can send details to all of the newspapers around and go door to door to various neighborhoods showing them the government stating that we are all simply renting from them.

...also, I have seen fleeting references to ways to buy real title directly from the government...but need to do more research.

Another approach might be to volunteer to pay tax when they claim it is due on the condition that they can show specifically why you are subject to the tax since it is your private property and you have never knowingly made a contract to pay such a tax to them. I am still digging currently, but it seems that there are quite a few lawful ways to contest the states assumptions while shifting the burden of proof onto them.

Disclaimer: Others here probably know much better than me what is going on. as I stated, I am simply doing footwork at this point and may not even fight the excise if I do not feel ready in time.

[KiteKaze]

Another quick note that I should mention...

Realistically, it seems that one should rebut presumptions that one is a subject (14th amendment citizen) before one could realistically establish allodial title...enabling one to properly contest any claim of rent due upon real property by ones presumed master.

However, depending on ones method, one _might_ be able to contest such taxes by forcing the state to either acknowledge on the record that most property owners are simply renters (true...but most do not fully realize such) or write off the taxes.

The above post by me was in reference to doing the second (relying on the state being unwilling to establish clearly what is happening)...though the path seems much clearer if one first establishes oneself as sovereign.

It is just so strange to see what we have become in a mere 100 years due to ignorance, public schools, and controlled media. Looking into the history of land rights it looks like this has happened time and time again...allodial titles being replaced via subterfuge with fudal title mechanisms.

For fighting taxes upon your property, the clearest route that I can see would be to:
(a) Reclaim your proper status as sovereign
(b) Force the state to disclose what nexus it claims for taxing your real property or, by failing to do so, to agree to your proper allodial title to it. (land patent, affidavit).

In the mean time, it might be wise to continue to pay taxes (if under duress) while doing so.

Again, I could well be missing something...other than the fact that this path looks to be long and harsh, though worth doing.

[summergarden]

KiteKaz:

Just a thought that you might look into regarding the excise tax that you say that you might have to come up with if you sell your house.

According to the Social Security Administration..... you know.... the ones that issue your So******m Security Number....

At 20 CFR Section 416.1103, they define what is NOT income.

In pertinent part of that section it states: " In addition, what you receive from the sale or exchange of your own property is not income; it remains a resource."

At Sec. 416.1103 (3)(c) it states: Receipts from the sale, exchange, or replacement of a resource. Receipts from the sale, exchange, or replacement of a resource are not income but are resources that have changed their form. This includes cash or in-kind item that is provided to replace or repair a resource....."

"Example": If you sell your automobile, the money you receive is not income, it is another form of resource."

How about that!

Are you incorporated as a "business" of buying and selling property as a a "dealer" for "investment" which would be subject to an excise tax

Or did you purchase your house as a necessity of life to provide shelter for yourself and your family?

I'm no tax expert, but you might look into it.

Summergarden

[gldskr]

Minnesota state constitution Sec. 15 -

Sec. 15. LANDS ALLODIAL; VOID AGRICULTURAL LEASES. All lands within the state are allodial and feudal tenures of every description with all their incidents are prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultural lands for a longer period than 21 years reserving rent or service of any kind shall be void.

So, how did our constitutional right to hold land in allodium get usurped? The short answer is it didn't, we gave up the right voluntarily by contracting with the state.

As we all know property taxes are a cash cow for the state. In order to be in compliance with the state's constitution and generate the revenue they seek, a scheme was devised whereby, instead of transfering title to property when it was sold, what was actually transfered was the right to property. The absolute possession, life estate, freehold, fee simple is what most of us call home. Since most people don't have the cash to buy their homes outright, they have to get a mortgage. Since banks won't loan money on allodial land the feudal/fee simple scheme was devised.

The constitutional prohibition of feudal tenures is intact because it is the right to property, not the title that is transfered.

In an allodial land sale, a contract is drawn, the parties perform and the contract is extinguished. In the sale of real estate, which is what banks will loan on, a contract is drawn - the warranty deed - the parties perform, but the contract is never extinguished until the real estate is sold again.

The warranty deed serves three purposes; it warrants conditionally the lifetime possession and enjoyment of the property to you, it secures the bank in that you can be permanantly removed through forclosure and it is the vehicle where the state can constitutionally tax the use of the property, through the specific term fee simple which is used in most warranty deeds.

I've come to the conclusion that those of us with mortgages and warranty deeds will most likely fail if we try to use the land patent process, simply because the terms of the contract were spelled out. We bought the property fee simple not absolute. On the other hand if you buy property for cash you should be able to demand a deed absolute which transfers title not just possession. If the seller balks, indemnify him against liability. Just make sure you do your homework. Then do the land patent process and bring it up current.

Allodial land has always been available, we choose, for whatever reason, not to take advantage of it.

[macerico]

No perfect solution perhaps, but my immediate plan when I get to buying a parcel of land....

1. Buy it in the name of a created LLC.

2. Have the tax bills sent to the LLC.

3. Pay "taxes" via money order if the LLC does not have its own bank account.

I'm going to start looking for a parcel of land way off the beaten track so that the post office can't require a physical address since they won't deliver mail to it anyhow.

[idknow]

to use a well-used (and i think well-defined phrase from here) you have to rebutt the presumpption they have made.

Also, this is Tacit Procuration which is closely tied to unrebutted presumpptions which are assumed to be valid acts of a possible agent which you have NOT appointed to do your bidding (business)

Our problem is that we have to act as soon as possible to close the mouth of one who acts tacitly on our behalf.

The problem is also that since all "court" acts are done in commerce that's how they assume we are also corporations doing business in court..

It's like context-sensitive help on GUIs, Press F1 for help that is relevent to your situation, but in court the context is commercial-business unless they are told something else.

Well, i hope that helps.


(aside: a wiki-wiki would be better for providing and allowing better inter-linking of topics and comments here.
but that's *WAY* off-topic. oops Administrator, can you ponder an alternate and incorporate such a feature?

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Originally Posted by str8razor

>>i havent done this yet, but i have been putting together somethin to put them into court to show how and why they are taxin home ownership. how is it a business.