A Valid Assessment

rushpat · #1 04-27-2004, 08:57 AM

The California FTB thread was getting a bit crowded, so I thought I'd branch this thread out.

I was reading on the net (wish I could remember the URL), that there is no legal, valid liability until there is a legal, valid assessment.

According to those who've battled the IRS on this, an assessment certificate, must be signed by the assessment officer to be valid. Also, this signature must be under penalty of perjury to the facts stated therein.

The Notice of Proposed Assessment I received from the FTB was unsigned, as is all of their correspondence. I'm thinking the same rules apply to them. Also, I read somewhere (still can't remember this URL either) that an assessment officer and a collection officer are supposed to be two different people (and someone acting as both can get into a lot of trouble). I guess it would be hard to prove that the same person didn't try to fill both roles when no one is signing anything.

Anyone care to comment?

#2 04-27-2004, 09:28 AM

i have "heard" similar, but haven't verified that.& i am in possession of one of the IRS manuals (and it may be in there), but it is stored away...

jon

#3 04-27-2004, 11:08 AM

FTB never sends anything out with a signature, or name, on any of their computer generated documents.They did at one time, but not anymore.&FTB employees were probably getting a lot of threats from 'We The People',so they changed the rules. 

Everything they send out is generic;&it's set up that way so you can't lay&blame on&anyone.&You don't know who you are talking to over there. It's like beating your head against a wall.

&

rushpat · #4 04-27-2004, 01:09 PM

Could this lay the foundation for a possible defense? Since there are no names and no signatures, and sometimes, no supporting documents (like REQUIRED court judgments), then perhaps the forms they send out are the results of a computer error on their part.

Sounds good to me.

Jerseee · #5 04-27-2004, 03:26 PM

Now you're talkin' rushpat!& Who is going to provide you with certified verification?& LOL

Ice · #6 04-27-2004, 04:33 PM

Maybe we should just start sending them unsigned documents claiming that they owe us a fee... and keep sending them... adding "interest", "penalties for late payment", etc.

Let's see if they can get around that... all we gotta do is charge a fee for answering their unsupported claims... ya know, if they won't support their claims when we request the verification then they are wasting our time... so we charge them for wasting our time.

I think I'm going to start charging every time a third party creates a debt in the TRADENAME.& If they want me to work on something that they created... it's going to cost them.

&

#7 04-27-2004, 05:05 PM

This guy has done some good research on the FTB.&

http://www.geocities.com/tthor.geo/ftbtaxscheme.html

rushpat · #8 04-27-2004, 05:06 PM

Not to mention the bill that is piling up for unauthorized use of tradename/copyright.

I was thinking of responding to any more letters within 72 hours with the words "I do not recognize you. Your offer of contract is hereby ejected, and returned to you for closure within 72 hours".

Maybe I should ditch that and send them a Notice of Proposed Assessment for their unauthorized usage of my copyrighted tradename and $500 penalties for each frivolous letters.

Then, just not respond to them and continue charging it. Finally, we could send an Earnings withholding order for the top dog (Gerald Goldberg, in the case of the FTB). Hey, if they don't need a court judgment, why should I?

#9 04-27-2004, 09:21 PM

Okay. Can't find it, but somewhere in 26 CFR there's something about us being able to see a copy of the assessment.& I'll keep looking, but all help appreciated.

Anyway, here's what you're looking for (I think).

The link will take you to the Internal Revenue Manual (or is that Infernal....?)

Here's about assessments:

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/ch14s03.html

4.15.3.3 (06-30-1999)
Assessing Amounts

4. After the assessment is processed by the service center and the DLN and 23C data has been placed on Form 2644 and Form 2859, the following items will be forwarded within one day to the service center Accounting Branch, Accounting and Control System, Journal and Ledger Unit.
<UL>
<LI>Original Form 2644;</LI>
<LI>Original Form 2859;</LI>
<LI>Original Form 3198 that has already been prepared by the agent;</LI>
<LI>Copy of Form 4549–A, Income Tax Examination Changes, portion of the Tax Computation; and </LI>
<LI>Copy of narrative.</LI>[/list]

5. A copy of Form 2644, with the DLN and 23C data, will be returned to the examiner responsible for the jeopardy/termination assessment.

Me again:

I just got one of those 4549 POS!&

The "key" is to DEMAND to see the "23C data."

Also see:

http://famguardian.org/CDs/IRSCD/Enf...Assessment.doc

http://famguardian.org/PublishedAuth...ert-020801.htm& (contains court case re "right" to see assessment)

More to come.....

Randy

#10 04-27-2004, 09:47 PM

Re "information returns"

Sec. 6065. - Verification of returns

Except as otherwise provided by the Secretary, any return, declaration, statement, or other document required to be made under any provision of the internal revenue laws or regulations shall contain or be verified by a written declaration that it is made under the penalties of perjury

(you need to read the other sections to get the full impact...i.e., "keep it in context")

Just think. W-4s are "information returns." Every receive one that was "verified"?& Well, I bet the peckerheads at the IRS never have, either!

Randy