Frivolous Arguments etc.....

[BOBT12]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Arguments are frivolous because their either untrue, incomplete or too far fetched.

in the mess we're in.

The arguments are either true or they are false, period.

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Example: The argument that the income tax is unconstitutional or citizens are not liable is false because all branches of government agree that it's constitutional and the law does specifically implicate citizens.

Which law implicate citizens?

Originally Posted by Stoneman

The 861 argument fails because it's missing critical components that makes it vulnerable to certain counter arguments.

What components are missing?

Originally Posted by Stoneman

With the citizenry held responsible with self assesing our tax liability and complying to that assesment it is easy to see why we're in the mess we're in.

We are only in a mess because the IRS is deceiving We the People into paying a tax that we don’t owe?

Originally Posted by Stoneman

According to the Cato Institute, each year millions of citizens receive bogus tax advice form the IRS and tax professionals. Even more troubling, people who file and pay their taxes under the guise of paying their fair share are still not safe and often victimzed by the IRS.

This is the point that I am trying to make, how can you trust the IRS or the government in general when they have a well established track record of lying and deceiving the People.

Originally Posted by BOBT12

The arguments are either true or they are false, period.




Which law implicate citizens?



What components are missing?



We are only in a mess because the IRS is deceiving We the People into paying a tax that we don’t owe?



This is the point that I am trying to make, how can you trust the IRS or the government in general when they have a well established track record of lying and deceiving the People.

Before I answer your questions, Some arguments are partially true, the're not complete..... like the 861 argument.

your first question is easy. Section 911 of the code implicates citizens that earn both foriegn and domestic income. Citizens living in the U.S. earning foriegn income are clearly implicated as well as U.S. citizens earning possesions income. This is why merely being a citizen does not obsolve a person from the tax liability.

A major component missing in the 861 argument concerns section 61. Letting the IRS sit on the assertion that section 61 applies to everyone is a fatal mistake. If gross income is already determined, this argument as well as any other argument is useless.

[BOBT12]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Before I answer your questions, Some arguments are partially true, the're not complete..... like the 861 argument.

your first question is easy. Section 911 of the code implicates citizens that earn both foriegn and domestic income. Citizens living in the U.S. earning foriegn income are clearly implicated as well as U.S. citizens earning possesions income. This is why merely being a citizen does not obsolve a person from the tax liability.

A major component missing in the 861 argument concerns section 61. Letting the IRS sit on the assertion that section 61 applies to everyone is a fatal mistake. If gross income is already determined, this argument as well as any other argument is useless.

How do you define "Gross Income"?

Regarding 861, and 911, the point is that they apply to very few people.

The question is why do We the People owe a Subtitle A tax, or need to file a Form 1040?

[Ice]

Note: The 1040 is a "proposed" tax form and has not been designated a mandatory tax form required by statute. (I believe this info has been posted elsewhere in this forum.) This fact leads to a logical conclusion... if the form is not mandatory then neither is the tax. Also Note that the 1040NR IS designated a mandatory tax form required by statute.

Ice

Originally Posted by BOBT12

How do you define "Gross Income"?

Regarding 861, and 911, the point is that they apply to very few people.

The question is why do We the People owe a Subtitle A tax, or need to file a Form 1040?

Bingo Bob! You asked the question I've been wanting to hear. Can't go into details now. Will get back to you later. Drop the zealous attitude and bring an open mind.

[lchesson]

Their infamous document titled "The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments" has been sucessfully rebutted line by line and is in itself a frivolous document. It was created by DOJ counsel, but contains NO identifying number, author or watermark as 'official' IRS material. Just another one of their scams. Federal courts are increasingly hostile towards those that don't want to "pay their fair share", so don't count on a fair trial should it come to that.

I'm new to this forum, but I've been around Tax Honesty for over 7 years. And I also have newly zealous attitude towards being a victim. We all know that if we receive no taxable income, we do NOT owe a tax. Taxable income involves a Federal Priviledge and most, if not all of us are not engaged in one. WE know it. THEY know it too.

More times than not, it does not matter whether this/that argument is lawfully correct or what that definition or code sections says. What we dealing with is abuse, fraud and domestic terrorism of the highest order. When will we say "ENOUGH" ? We do NOT have to tolerate a lifetime of threats, coersion, abuse and extortion.

Well, enough IS enough. Isn't it time to get our house in order? What can we do? I suggest that as law-abiding people interested in a peaceful solution, we engage our congress-critters and create an administrative record on those that 'play ostrich' or otherwise support this scheme. And when the time comes, seek criminal indictments on every one of them. Two from each states and WHAM...100 politicians exposed.

Take a look at the website that lays out this plan (American Glasnost) and consider getting involved in YOUR state, particularly if you are in NC, CA, FL, IL, MI, NY, OH, PA, or VA.

http://www.newgenevastudycenter.org/

[suijuris]

lchesson, welcome to the forum!

I am in agreement, people need to take action... and now! Discussing the sad state of affairs on the forum is one thing, but really becoming proactive is what is needed.

[BOBT12]

Originally Posted by suijuris

lchesson, welcome to the forum!

I am in agreement, people need to take action... and now! Discussing the sad state of affairs on the forum is one thing, but really becoming proactive is what is needed.

I think that the first step is to stop volunteering for that which we do not want to do, such as feeding the IRS.

Welcome Ichesson, glad to hear from you.

[iamfreeru2]

Ichesson,

Welcome it is good to have you here. Like the rest, I too, am in total agreement with your post. I live in Florida and would like to get involved and will check out the site. It's funny the more sites the gubment shuts down the more that just keep popping up and the truth is spreading. This is great!!