never filed?

rushpat · #1 05-04-2004, 03:49 PM

I'm curious, most people here who haven't filed probably filed at one point in their life, then found out the truth, then stopped filing. Is there anyone here who never started filing? I wonder if an IMF would exist for that person?

#2 05-16-2004, 03:42 PM

Hey, Rushpat....

I've wondered the same thing. Here's the answer.& (For me, finding this was the final straw, meaning only that now I'm beyond even getting angry about any of this. This government, the IRS, the whole BB-thing is completely outta control.)

From the Internal Revenue Manual:
4.4.9.12 (02-08-1999)
No TIN 

1. Group — For returns where the taxpayer does not have a TIN, request that the taxpayer submit Form SS–4 for EIN to the Internal Revenue Service, or Form SS–5 for SSN to the Social Security Administration. Also request the taxpayer to furnish the IRS with the SSN assigned by SSA as soon as possible. Do not delay the processing of the delinquent/SFR package.

c. Submit return package and Form 5345 to Case Processing Support.

4.4.9.12.1 (02-08-1999)
Temporary SSN 

1. Case Processing Support — Fax the following information to the campus Entity Control section to obtain an IRS identification number (IRSN):

G. Reason for the request (Requesting IRSN for the purpose of a temporary SSN.)

2. Entity Control will provide the temporary SSN within 2 workdays of the receipt of the fax and is responsible for adding the account to Master File. The temporary SSN always begins with a " 9" and ends with an asterisk. 

3. Case Processing Support—enter the temporary SSN on the return and forward it the campus for processing. Enter the temporary SSN on the Form 5345, input it on AIMS, and forward it to the group.

4.4.9.12.2 (02-08-1999)
Permanent EIN 

1. If the taxpayer will not request their own EIN, then Case Processing Support will contact the campus Entity Control section to obtain the assignment of a permanent EIN.

Me again:

So there's your answer.

BB will create its own "number" for you. After that, the "IMF" is easily, and routinely, manipulated into a "BMF," which gives the IRS legal authority for assessments and liens and levies and all the rest.

Ain't this land of the "free" a great place to be?

Randy

&

rushpat · #3 05-16-2004, 04:37 PM

But that still refers to a return of some kind by the "taxpayer". I'm curious if someone knows about the fraud before they enter the workplace, and therefore just does exempt w-4s and never files a return in the first place.

#4 05-16-2004, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushpat

But that still refers to a return of some kind by the "taxpayer". I'm curious if someone knows about the fraud before they enter the workplace, and therefore just does exempt w-4s and never files a return in the first place.

Doesn't matter. The employer IS going to file, with the IRS, W-2s, 1099s, and all the rest. That's ALL the IRS needs, or wants. They'll take it from there. They have "information returns," you name and address, they'll create a SS# for you, and they'll create substitute returns, and then they'll "come after you."

Maybe this will help:

I've found only ONE place in which the IRS openly acknowledges the difference between "taxpayers" and an "individual" being "non-liable."

Internal Revenue ManualPart 8. Appeals
Chapter 11. Appeals Penalties
Section 1. Penalties
8.11.1.3 (07-25-2002)
Reasonable Cause

1. With few exceptions, if the taxpayer can clearly establish reasonable cause, the case will be resolved at either the SBSE or W & I Campuses (formerly called service centers), collection, or taxpayer service level.


6. Ask the following questions to determine if the taxpayer has established reasonable cause:

G. Is a non-liable individual being blamed for the taxpayer’s noncompliance? For example, what is the nature of the relationship between the taxpayer and this individual? Or is the individual an employee of the taxpayer or an independent third party such as an accountant or lawyer?

Me:

Hard to believe, isn't it, but there it is:

"...is the individual an employee of THE TAXPAYER..."

IF you acknowledge being the "employee," reason would dictate that the EMPLOYER IS THE TAXPAYER.& 

AND HE IS. We all know that.

But the IRS doesn't play fair.

Admit to being an "employee" and your "wages" become "income" and you've admitted to being engaged in a "business activity" and you become a "Sole Proprietorship."

Admit to being a "non-liable INDIVIDUAL" and you have a contradiction in terms that will be used against you.& You must not admit, or acknowledge, anything beyond being "Non-liable."

The only "argument" they will ever, ever accept as being "non-frivolous" is a signed return (yours or theirs), along with payment. Everything else brands you a "tax protestor."

These bastards know all this stuff better than you and me. They simply don't care about "truth." The law is on their side. The judges are on their side. The public is on their side.&They have a "job" to do, and that's to collect as much money as they possibly can on behalf of BB. That's it. That's all it is to it. There's nothing more.

Choosing this battle means your engaging three of the most powerful forces on this planet:

Fear
Ignorance
Greed

Fear of the IRS is its real power.
Ignorance of Americans regarding the truth is the IRS' most powerful weapon.
Greed is what keeps it all working.

Folks like us come along? Gotta make those agents laugh their asses off. THEY have the power. THEY have the authority. THEY have the courts. And then WE come along and try to, to what, "educate" THEM on what the TRUTH is?

They give a damn about truth. They have everything they need. Truth is what they don't want. And those who confront them with truth are a perceived&threat to the status quo.

And history is filled with example of perceived threats.

Sorry for the rant. Not directed toward you.

Thought I'd add this. Purely anecdotal, I know, but it speaks volumes.&
In almost five years of dealing with these agents, I've noticed a couple of things:

Rarely do any of their letters use the standard postal address. I.E., their return address spells out the state. They do NOT use VA, for Virginia, for example. Why not?

My name is always spelled in all caps. The person to whom I am respond? His/Her/Its name is NEVER spelled that way. Just a matter of "form"?& Gotta wonder.

The point is, again, they know all this stuff. All--without exception--all our "arguments" have been summarily dismissed as frivolous. We're back in time, trying to convince a nation that the world is round, NOT flat.&We're outnumbered by those who still believe it is flat. We're out-gunned by those in power.

So why do it?

Because it's the right thing to do. Because I, for one, won't be a&slave. Because I, for one, have learned too much to go back. I won't be told that black is white when I know it's black but unless I agree to PRETEND that it IS white, well, they might do this and might do that because they have the power, blah blah blah

I've said it before. It bears repeating:

I HATE BULLIES. The IRS is a bully. I hope it goes to hell and dies.

Randy

&

#5 05-19-2004, 04:51 PM

GOOD STUFF RANDY.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

YOU SAID:

The only "argument" they will ever, ever accept as being "non-frivolous" is a signed return (yours or theirs), along with payment. Everything else brands you a "tax protestor."

YOU'RE RIGHT.ALL WE CAN DO IS DISPUTE THEIR CLAIMS&OF HOW&WE FALL UNDER "TAXPAYERS".

I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY THAT HAS NEVER FILED A RETURN.

I'M OF THE OPINION THAT WE JUST NEED TO KEEP SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT THE IRS FRAUD.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME BEFORE MOST PEOPLE WAKE UP AND STEP OUT OF THE MATRIX.

&

#6 05-19-2004, 06:20 PM

Thanks, PJT...

I agree that we really are in the midst of a "revolution." And it is being fought one person at a time.

If you've never heard of this lady, you need to read her story. One of the most tragic, detailed, and true accounts of how the IRS, well, "makes mistakes," but just goes on and on, business as usual.& Her husband committed suicide to leave her the money to fight the IRS to PROVE they were "innocent." She "won."& What a story:

&http://www.unclefed.com/TxprBoR/1990/1990Council.html

Randy

iamfreeru2 · #7 05-19-2004, 07:30 PM

Hello,

&

I have friend in California that has no SSN and has never filed a W-4 or 1040 and has never heard from the IRS or FTB. They don't even know he exists.

iamfreeru2

rushpat · #8 05-19-2004, 08:17 PM

I know for a fact that it is possible to have never filed, and yet have an SSN and use exempt W-4's with no problem.

I wonder how much trouble your friend had getting a job?