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Need Help-Again
This is a cut and paste from Randy:
Mornin'...
Have a look-see:
TITLE 28 > PART VI > CHAPTER 176 > SUBCHAPTER A
Sec. 3002. - Definitions
(3) ''Debt'' means -
(a) an amount that is owing to the United States on account of a direct loan, or loan insured or guaranteed, by the United States; or
(b) an amount that is owing to the United States on account of a fee, duty, lease, rent, service, sale of real or personal property, overpayment, fine, assessment, penalty, restitution, damages, interest, tax, bail bond forfeiture, reimbursement, recovery of a cost incurred by the United States, or other source of indebtedness to the United States, but that is not owing under the terms of a contract originally entered into by only persons other than the United States;
Now, unless and until they can and do prove otherwise, I'm sticking with the fact that their alleged assessments, including subsequent demands for alleged "debts" are indeed, and in fact, "debts" under the province and procedures required for ALL debts.
So, they gotta adhere to the "Trinity of Debts:"
1) Prove the alleged debt.
2) Prove authority to collect the alleged debt.
3) Verify the alleged debt.
Hope this helps.
edit: And run with this (copied it out of one of my responses to agents here in VA, but the principal is the same, fed and State)--I.E., if you don't "volunteer" to pay, their left by trying to collect by "distraint," right?
Distraint; n : the seizure and holding of property as security for payment of a debt or satisfaction of a claim [syn: distress]
Bouvier Law Dictionary:
"DISTRESS, remedies. …It is to be observed also, that there is an essential difference between distresses at common law and distresses prescribed by statute. The former are taken nomine penae, (q. v.) as a means of compelling payment; the latter are similar to executions, and are taken as satisfaction for a duty.
"NOMINE POENAE, contracts.
"DUTY, natural law. A human action which is, exactly conformable to the laws which require us to obey them.
2. It differs from a legal obligation, because a duty cannot always be enforced by the law;
"COMMON LAW. That which derives its force and authority from the universal consent and immemorial practice of the people. See Law, common.
LAW, COMMON. The common law is that which derives its force and authority from the universal consent and immemorial practice of the people. It has never received the sanction of the legislature, by an express act, which is the criterion by which it is distinguished from the statute law.
"STATUTE. The written will of the legislature, solemnly expressed according to the forms prescribed in the constitution; an act of the legislature."
It is therefore clear that the "distraint" by which the Department has allegedly made these alleged assessments and subsequently alleging these debts can be only one of two things:
i) The "distresses" of "common law." This would be a "contract." Or,
ii) The "distresses" of "statute." This would be a "duty." A "duty," however, differs from a "legal obligation."
What "contract" of common law did we enter into regarding this alleged tax debt?
What "statute" requires a "duty" regarding this alleged debt when "duty" is not a legal obligation?
Also, and I'm still looking through my notes, there's a section in one of the CFR's that states, plainly, that violation of "internal revenue" laws/codes are "commericial crimes." THAT makes it "commerce" and THAT makes it under the Fair Debt stuff.
brb--gonna look some more...
Okay. Can't find it. Somebody else will know it.
edit...again:
here it is:
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 1]
[Revised as of April 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS
CHAPTER I--ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO TAX AND TRADE BUREAU, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
PART 72--DISPOSITION OF SEIZED PERSONAL PROPERTY--Table of Contents
Subpart B--Definitions
Sec. 72.11 Meaning of terms.
ATF Officer. An officer or employee of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) duly authorized to perform any function relating to the administration or enforcement of this part.
Commercial crimes. Any of the following types of crimes (Federal or State): Offenses against the revenue laws;
Me again: Maybe we should start asking why the "Commissioner" contacts us (through his minions those dastardly agents), and NOT the ATF?
I'm really gone now.
Randy
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