DM: I bothered looking up that pretended quote from Traficante. Only the first three sentences are his.
Shoonra is evading that Traficant made a comment about the US in bankruptcy by the alleged fabrication being based on something he actually did say... She evades that now because Traficant did actually make comment and she does not want to be the source that led us to it. I am simply playing her slip for all it is worth in entertainment value.
Quote:
One should concern themselves with just exactly where "Guber-Mentals" get the "operating capital/debt" to operate...the CAFAR's expose that it's well hidden Investment "Income" (Book/Paper Entries) that is the "Biggest Game in Town".
I like that slip indeed. You integrated the Mother Language - Hebrew by calling CAFR (Comprehensive Annual Financial Report) CAFAR. Note the clerk's address in the attachment - Kafar Tapauch. Literally interpreted it means the release of the inheritance.
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. About the images from the Congressional Record on microfiche: One can see that Traficant was there voting that day but going through the record three times, Traficant made not even a peep that day.
Fair enough; I hadn't been aware that copying the URL would only bring up the form for queries.
Using that form, choose 103rd Congress, search for "chapter 11" (exact match), Member (HR): Traficant, Section: House & Extensions, First Session, and date: March 17, 1993.
Or very probably just look up "chapter 11" on the date of March 17, 1993.
and the item is listed as "Provoding for Consideration of House Concurrent Resolution 64 ..." and page H1303 (I think this page number is from the Daily edition, not the Permanent edition).
--------
Now it's worth considering that James A. Traficant went through prolonged criminal proceedings, circa 2002-05, and during all of that he NEVER articulated an argument that the US govt was bankrupt.
I found, besides the Detrick decision, a couple of other court decisions that ridiculed the notion that the federal govt was in bankruptcy; one of these is in print, US v. Wooten (6th Cir April 29, 2004) 96 Fed.Appx 385 at 386-387. An unpublished decision was US v. Dimitt (D Kan Jan. 6, 1992) nr. 90-1417-T.
I am reminding you of what you said at the beginning of the last Page:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
DM: I bothered looking up that pretended quote from Traficante. Only the first three sentences are his. The rest are yours or some other mountebank's.
So let's have it... Traficant said something about US bankruptcy somewhere along the way. You say so yourself.
Quote:
Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any bankrupt entity in world history, the U.S. Government.
You still seem not to be able to pronounce the words, "National debt."
Quote:
I found, besides the Detrick decision, a couple of other court decisions that ridiculed the notion that the federal govt was in bankruptcy; one of these is in print, US v. Wooten (6th Cir April 29, 2004) 96 Fed.Appx 385 at 386-387. An unpublished decision was US v. Dimitt (D Kan Jan. 6, 1992) nr. 90-1417-T.
I am sure that will pan out like the case you already quoted. The court opinion says nothing about whether the US is in bankruptcy or not. Only that the defendant brought up an argument that failed to prove the US is in bankruptcy.
Last edited by David Merrill : 11-09-2006 at 10:26 AM.
I was able to find that entry on the Microfiche. I was determined to prove it was not there and looking carefully one last time spotted it. It reads like Shoonra says.
I would believe that is what Traficant actually said that day except the things in the allegedly bogus testimony are all true and easily proven facts.
Participation with Bretton Woods in itself proves the US is a bankrupt government and that is without the recent default on that bailout/loan/national debt.
Albeit I am not ready to say the Congressional Record is tampered with, mainly because I use it too often as credible. Only that Traficant says the US government is bankrupt in both accounts because it is true.
I really see no point in discrediting Shoonra any further. We all know who she is.
The national debt has existed, in varying amounts, since the founding of the Republic. It was deliberately engineered by the Founders as a means of economic growth. There are several books that explain it.
Nearly every adult in the US is in debt to some degree; they have a mortgage, a credit card, car payments, etc. There is no good reason why the United States govt, being so much bigger and (at least in theory) immortal, cannot also carry a debt.
Bankruptcy is, primarily, an inability to pay one's debts. So far the US has not defaulted on its debts. It may do some things too complex for amateurs to grasp (esp if they persist in treating the US govt as if it were a human, with a measurable lifespan), but it has not gone into bankruptcy.
As I said, a real bankruptcy requires a filing in court. Nobody has yet pointed to the court and docket number of the federal govt's petition in bankruptcy.
The national debt has existed, in varying amounts, since the founding of the Republic. It was deliberately engineered by the Founders as a means of economic growth. There are several books that explain it.
Could you provide the authors names, book titles and when those books were published?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
Bankruptcy is, primarily, an inability to pay one's debts. So far the US has not defaulted on its debts. It may do some things too complex for amateurs to grasp (esp if they persist in treating the US govt as if it were a human, with a measurable lifespan), but it has not gone into bankruptcy.
Then why do you make that sort of comparison here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
Nearly every adult in the US is in debt to some degree; they have a mortgage, a credit card, car payments, etc. There is no good reason why the United States govt, being so much bigger and (at least in theory) immortal, cannot also carry a debt.
Simply because the lifespan of governments are frequently (but not always) longer than that of a human being does not in any way give your statment any validity. I'm sure those in power in the Roman Empire believed theirs would remain forever...where is it today?
Hmmm, "being so much bigger", well now, that explains why there's reason for the government to throw away the rulebook (read: abuses or usurpts all Constitutional provisions) to meet their end goals (example: FDR did it when he claimed War Powers in order to close all banks for the so called "Bankers Holiday". What war was being fought and against whom?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
As I said, a real bankruptcy requires a filing in court. Nobody has yet pointed to the court and docket number of the federal govt's petition in bankruptcy.
So if it's not in official court transcripts or on a docket somewhere, no matter how ordinary or extraordinary the event, it never happened? So you're saying the only way for a corporation to deal with a bankrupty situation is by filing with the court for declaration of Chapter XX bankruptcy?
Whatever you say.
Sorry, but you keep making statements and comments that have the appearance of being nothing more than agenda driven opinion.
To follow up on David's question, have you come up with any fact backing your statement that Traficante's statement about the Federal US bankruptcy being false?
__________________ Liberty: Freedom from restraint and the power to follow one's own will to choose a course of conduct. Liberty, like freedom, has its inherent restraint to act without harm to others and within the accepted rules of conduct for the benefit of the general public.
Last edited by FreeFromContract : 11-09-2006 at 02:52 PM.
The national debt has existed, in varying amounts, since the founding of the Republic. It was deliberately engineered by the Founders as a means of economic growth. There are several books that explain it.
Nearly every adult in the US is in debt to some degree; they have a mortgage, a credit card, car payments, etc. There is no good reason why the United States govt, being so much bigger and (at least in theory) immortal, cannot also carry a debt.
Bankruptcy is, primarily, an inability to pay one's debts. So far the US has not defaulted on its debts. It may do some things too complex for amateurs to grasp (esp if they persist in treating the US govt as if it were a human, with a measurable lifespan), but it has not gone into bankruptcy.
As I said, a real bankruptcy requires a filing in court. Nobody has yet pointed to the court and docket number of the federal govt's petition in bankruptcy.
It is this use of private credit from the Federal Reserve that produces a private version of national debt called Income Tax, as explained in the 1984 Freedom League article.
Congress is simply in the absurdity of not being able to print the FRNs to pay any interest and so the debt is designed never to be paid off anyway. Therefore Congress goes into more debt until it cannot even keep up on the interest. So it keeps voting to raise the debt ceiling and that technically is a bankrupt condition, any way Shoonra tries to fit it into her strict definitions.
As I have pointed out already, just earlier this year the US defaulted on its bankruptcy terms. I first started paying attention to this for using in traffic court in late 1995 - Rubin predicts default date - Associated Press.
It is a little amazing that Shoonra expects her posts to be believable. But I admit a little difficulty believing that the Congressional Record has been altered. Just the same, Traficant correctly tells of the US Bankruptcy in either version of that day's testimony.
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. Looking for the newspaper article I stumbled across another article. It is in the Abstract that the US went bankrupt in 1933 in order to stave off the bankruptcy of sub-corporations. However the term "bankruptcy" may have never been applied to the insolvency around gold because it was much more of a theft than a bankruptcy. What I find a little ironic is that in testing out an invisible ink pen I wrote on the top margin...
Last edited by David Merrill : 11-09-2006 at 05:34 PM.
