Driving = Comercial

[Codee]

This is a message from the person who taught me how to think about law. I hold this person in my highest esteem.

Hi Cody,

I posted this in a couple Yahoo Groups on Saturday [not ONE single
intelligent nibble *sigh*] You might want to post it into SuiJuris
just to see what happens. You might even want to try it....

Xxxxxxxxxx

----------------

"XXXXX@.xxx" wrote:

Since I know there are several folk here (Yahoo groups)whom I credit with the
ability to actually THINK, here is a modest proposal:

Since we seem to be presumed to be engaged in business when we are
engaged in the act of 'driving' a 'motor vehicle', what would happen
if we should choose to apply some of the cheesier 'common business
practices' to a prospective 'traffic stop' [kinda like when we
get 'serviced' at DMV.... {Fair is Fair, right?}]?

1. Since CHiPpies have modified their 'traffic stop' procedures to
initiate 'contact' at the curb-side vehicle window, how about
posting
a sign [removable to avoid blocking one's own vision through such
window]: "This window [temporarily or permanently] CLOSED. Please
visit next window. Please wait for next available customer service
representative {that would be me}." [Let them walk around the
vehicle
to talk to me.]

2. On the street side window post a sign [again removable]: "Regular
business hours are: 12:15 P.M. to 12:45 P.M., the fifth Monday of
every month. Closed for lunch: 12-noon to 1:00 P.M. For extra-
ordinary
business, please arrange to schedule an appointment. We charge
$100.00
per extra-ordinary business appointments." [Yes, that means what it
says: we never have regular office hours. And if we set an
appointment
for you, we will charge you....] [Or, if I were feeling frisky, I
could move the first sign to my window {like that has never happened
to you...}.]

3. Post a sign [removable, of course]: "We reserve the right to
refuse
service to anyone." [almost EVERY business, particularly a
restaurant
or bar, uses this one.]

4. Post a sign: "Our Policy is: For faster service, you must have a
number." [where he/she is gonna GET that number is really not my
problem... Maybe put a number-issuing machine on the bumper.]

5. Post a sign: "Our Privacy Policy is: For access to company
records, we
require two pieces of government-issued identification and a valid
Subpoena/Search Warrant." [Make
the 'officer' produce physical ID to talk to me at my
presumed 'place
of business'.]

6. [Pull out a cell phone {or something that looks like a cell
phone,
working or not} and have a 'conversation' with the air, saying over
my
shoulder, "I'm busy right now. I'll be with you in a minute. (I'll
help you as soon as I can....)" {Roll my eyes at the discourtesy of
the [fantasy] caller.}]

7. After a suitable time span {preferably a while...}, "May I help
you?"

CHiPpie: "I need to see your license, registration [yada, yada]...."

8. "I'm sorry, Sir/Madam, I don't have that information. I'm just
the
receptionist/service rep. Would you like to talk to my [don't have
one] Supervisor?"

. . .

9. "I can't seem to reach my Supervisor. Would you like to talk to
my
[don't have one] Employer?"

. . .
10. "I can't seem to reach my Employer. Would you like to schedule
an
appointment? We will have to have your payment in advance. I can
give
you a receipt for that ,if you want...."

. . .

11. "Y'all have a nice day now, y'uh hear...."

. . .

[How is this 'officer' going to 'arrest' me for 'just doing my job'?
And you don't think he/she HAS $100.00 on him/her, do you? What's
the
matter with him/her? Can't he/she READ?! The sign SAYS....]

There seems to be a relatively new plastic material which is static-
cling to glass and silk-screenable which could be perfect for this
approach....

[BornStupid]

I guess the next question would be if you have a license to do business on public property.

[jekylisland]

If you get pulled over ask the officer if you are under arrest?

He/She will say "no".

You then ask, "So may I go?".

You can also ask the "peace" officer if they took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Then ask them if they have read the Constitution.

[redy2fiyt]

I would make the logical assumption that if we admit to engaging in commerce by posting these signs or performing business in this manner, that we are therefore subject to the California Vehicle Code (or whatever State Vehicle Code you may be in).

In California:

Vehicle Code



Compliance with Peace Officer Orders

2800. (a) It is unlawful to willfully fail or refuse to comply with any lawful order, signal, or direction of any peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, when that peace officer is in uniform and is performing duties under any of the provisions of this code, or to refuse to submit to any lawful inspection under this code.

(b) Except as authorized under Section 24004, it is unlawful to fail or refuse to comply with any lawful out-of-service order issued by any peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, when that peace officer is in uniform and is performing duties under any provision of this code and the out-of-service order complies with Title 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

(c) It is unlawful to fail or refuse to comply with a lawful out-of-service order issued by the United States Secretary of the Department of Transportation.

(d) This section shall become operative on September 20, 2005.

Amended Sec. 29.5, Ch. 724, Stats. 1999. Effective January 1, 2000.
Amended Sec. 2, Ch. 952, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2004. Operative September 20, 2005.

[weaponx71]

I think Redy is correct, if you decide to go that route with the signs then you have just admitted to be in a commercial activity, giving them every authority to subject you to pretty much anything they want.

The problem I see with Jeky's plan is this... I have been handcuffed for asking questions of the like, and the cop STILL would not say I was under arrest. You CAN'T pick the 'fight' with the cop, they are just a mindless drone that are taught the wrong way from the beginning, it's not worth having them call back up and then finding 4 guns pointed at your head just because you were asking questions. It simply gets you nowhere except reason to file complaints in the personal capacity against them AFTER you win your other court proceedings.

It's better to just state you were NOT in any commercial activity, and everything you have done was in the private capacity. Ask for their bonding agent and ask where their authority lies when dealing with NON commercial activity.
Which answer will you get? NONE. Every time I have asked these things they clam up and say nothing. They still violate all your rights, but at least you don't get threatend with a gun.

[ezrhythm]

weaponx71, how are you setup in your travels?
Do you use, have or carry a DL, insurance, registration?
Any signs on your transportation like, No Tresspassing or Not For Hire? Are you getting ticketed when stopped?

[charlesa6]

That's a good question.

[weaponx71]

Ezrhy,
No, I do not carry any of those documents. Quite frankly I don't drive. At this time I don't need to. Everything happend to me before I knew a lot of things about the system. Clyde was helping me at the beginning but he then passed on and now I have to dig my way out of the system.
When I do drive I will not be carrying any of those documents and I will be having a sign in the window stating that I am "Private not for hire."

I don't have all the answers and procedures yet, but I could relate what happend to me when you ask questions that the joe schmoe cop won't answer. Is it right? NO, they SHOULD know what is going on and not just say, well, it's my job to give you a ticket and take you to jail for not having a license. Some if not all probably DO know this.

I'm just a beginner, so things are new for me.

[redy2fiyt]

Originally Posted by weaponx71

I'm just a beginner, so things are new for me.

It really helps to be prepared. I too have not yet tested the waters since I have acquired this knowledge - only because I haven't yet been pulled over. However, I would be familiar with Ezzy's "office of the person" link above and with your constitution right to travel (see "liberty" defined in Black's).

I typically engage in dialogues with my wife or myself while I am commuting in an attempt to practice speaking what I know. Think about the possible scenarios and how far you are willing to go. If you don't want to go to jail, fight the cop to the end and then sign the ticket so he doesn't haul you away. Just sign it as discussed in the forums and use lack of jurisdiction as your basis in court.

[sania]

that was a esteemed question.







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