Does Expired Constitute not being valid?

[juststartingout]

In the statutes of my State, the only thing referrencing an expired license is how to go about renewing the license after it has expired. It tells how long til it expires, but doesn't say that it has to be renewed.

The statutes also say that one must have a "valid" driver's license. I never see reference to a license being invalid if it is expired. County references the State's statute for how to renew a license as the statute that gives them a right to fine a 'driver' for 'driving' with and expired license

171.27 EXPIRATION OF LICENSE.
The expiration date for each driver's license, other than under-21 licenses, is the birthday
of the driver in the fourth year following the date of issuance of the license. The birthday of the
driver shall be as indicated on the application for a driver's license. A license may be renewed on
or before expiration or within one year after expiration upon application, payment of the required
fee, and passing the examination required of all drivers for renewal. Driving privileges shall be
extended or renewed on or preceding the expiration date of an existing driver's license unless the
commissioner believes that the licensee is no longer qualified as a driver.

State also says that no one shall drive up on the roads/highways without a valid license. Yes, I'm aware of all the def. of motor vehicle, person, etc. Just trying to figure out the state statutes, and if I"m missing something.

In the statutes it only references fining someone for 'driving' on a revoked, cancelled, or suspended license... never mentions an expired license. State court decisions mention

171.02 LICENSES; TYPES, ENDORSEMENTS, RESTRICTIONS.
Subdivision 1. License required; duplicate identification restricted. Except when
expressly exempted, a person shall not drive a motor vehicle upon a street or highway in this state
unless the person has a license valid under this chapter for the type or class of vehicle being

as refernce for 'driving' on an expired license being an offense.
driven.

[redy2fiyt]

Originally Posted by juststartingout

In the statutes it only references fining someone for 'driving' on a revoked, cancelled, or suspended license... never mentions an expired license. State court decisions mention as refernce for 'driving' on an expired license being an offense.
driven.

Check the definitions at the beginning of the statute or code you are referring to. The terms in question are usually defined there. Specifically, look for "valid" and "expired".

[Shoonra]

There is actually a legal distinction between driving on an expired license on one hand and driving without a license or driving on a suspended license on the other hand. It is a very slight difference, as the offense is still driving without a valid license, but there have been decisions that listing the wrong specific offense on a traffic ticket invalidates the case.

Having had a license which was once valid but which expired and not renewed indicates that, at some previous time, the driver was evaluated as being fit to drive. Driving without a license (not even an expired one) means he never qualified (to official satisfaction) as being fit to drive, and if his license was suspended or revoked that would mean that he explicitly was considered unfit to drive.

So there is a difference, although so slight and recondite that it probably does not have a practical significance.

[juststartingout]

redy - yup, looked there. No defintions. It seems to me that I am to assume that to have an expired license is invalid because of the fines they attatch to it. But, there is no evidence that they should even be doing that.

Shoonra - i don't see what you're getting at there. i understand the concept of what you're saying and have already played all of that through my head, but I don't understand what your objective is in stating what you did.

[redy2fiyt]

Originally Posted by juststartingout

redy - yup, looked there. No defintions. It seems to me that I am to assume that to have an expired license is invalid because of the fines they attatch to it. But, there is no evidence that they should even be doing that.

Shoonra - i don't see what you're getting at there. i understand the concept of what you're saying and have already played all of that through my head, but I don't understand what your objective is in stating what you did.

I think Shoonra is explaining that if a citation is issued for one of the items we are discussing, that a common mistake on the citation would be to list driving with an invalid license when it was actually driving with expired license. This would nullify the citation, or at least give you grounds for a dismissal.

If the definition you are looking for isn't listed in the statute, then common definitions are acceptable. I would start with Black's Law Dictionary's definition. Anyone got that handy?

[Codee]

Yes it does.

A suspended license is still valid. For instance if a minor has his parents sign the license and accept responsibility the license is still a binding contract on the parents despite the "driving privlidge" being revoked.

Expired however is going to mean "not valid."

Good luck.

I got a charge for driving on a suspended reduced to a charge of "non-valid license" after service of the notice of suspention was shown to be in want... Then the charge of driving without a valid license I got dismissed after I explained to the DA my intention of arguing that a suspended license is still valid and that the only reuirement for validity is that the license be current and signed...

I think in California the actually suspend the driving privlidge.... I cannot remember if they suspend the license too.

Anyway I do not think it applies to an expired or unlicensed driver.

BTW your name is going to suck once you start to learn.

[redy2fiyt]

Originally Posted by Codee

BTW your name is going to suck once you start to learn.

LOL! Cheers to that!

[juststartingout]

yea, i know... i've been learning for 3 years now and figuring this stuff out LOL but just haven't wanted to change the name.

[charlesa6]

The more you learn the game the more you obtain the knowledge for your benefits.