What to say to a police officer when "pulled over" for...

[Raptor13x]

This is the next strategy I am using:


Me: (Locks doors, lowers drivers window an inch, sets tape recorder on dash in plain view and pushes record)
Me: Hello, do you have a claim against me?
Officer: License and registration
Me: Is this a request or a demand?
(if request)
Officer: request
Me: I respectfully deny your request.
(if demand)
Officer: demand
Me: By what authority are you basing this demand?
Officer: Police officer of XX county, blah blah blah
Me: In light of the number of people impersonating police officers, I must ask you to provide me with lawful documentation proving your claim of being a lawful police officer of XXX. (hands him sheet similar to leatherlips's questionnaire). Please fill this out and bring me back your signed oath or affirmation to protect and defend the Constitution of the united states of America, and I will be happy to cooperate to the lawful extent of your duties. Failure to complete this is proof that you are not who you say you are, are not a police officer, I will obviously be clear to leave, and any ensuing action involving a violation of my unalienable rights will result in lawsuit in your private capacity.
(if officer says he cannot provide an Oath or Affirmation to defend the Constitution)
Me: If you wish to proceed as a lawful police officer, please state for the record(motion to tape recorder) that you do indeed swear an oath or affirm that you will protect and defend the Constitution of the united states of America.

If he becomes violent, I will state so for the tape recorder that a man impersonating a police officer is threatening me with violence in the form of XXXX, and proceed to leave. Regardless of what happens, I will not leave my automobile unless he produces a lawful warrant.

If everything is in order:
Me: (reads through it) Alright, what were you requesting from me?
Officer: Your license, registration, and proof of insurance
Me: Sorry, I cant help you.
Officer: You dont have a license?
Me: I am not a U.S. citizen, and have no way of aquiring such items, as I have no birth certificate or social security number, nor do I have any memory of exactly where or when I was born.
Officer: You cant drive without a license.
Me: To deprive me of the right to travel would violate my rights which you yourself have sworn/affirmed to uphold and defend under the Constitution. What would you recommend I do?




Thats my plan of attack thusfar, if it goes beyond that I'll just improvise

Raptor and others,
Be carefull they don't shoot you!
They get violent for much less than this....

I'm in Sothern California - On two occasions I did produce a tape recorder (in one case I had no tape in it, but the brute did not know that :-) ) and immediately they called for support with hands on guns and it was pretty intimidating.

I: "Am I under arrest?"
Him: "No!"
I: "If I leave, Are you going to shoot me for resisting arrest ?"
Him: "Papers please!"
I: "Am I under arrest?"
Him: "NO! You are detained"
I: "Are you going to use the information I supply you against me?"
Him: "I will if you DON'T!"
I: "If I don't supply it, how are you going to obtain the information?"
Him: "You see the officer back there..."


Scary, position - and I am somebody who saw fighting action, and was wounded, during military activity...


My recording (the one I had a tape in..) prooved the officer was a liar, but the "court" broke more laws & rules just to find me guilty... It's not the America one would like to see!!!

[weishaupt1776]

*
If the cop loses sight of the suspect vehicle like around a corner or city, that is also grounds for dismissal as he can't then be sure it was the same vehicle.* If a cop ever threatens you because you won't sign, then you need to do the impossibility in law trick on him.* You ask*him if he will show up in court.* He will say yes.* Then you ask him how he knows he will be able to, does he have a crystal ball?* Ask him if how he knows he will even be alive tomorrow.* Tell him you have no such crystal ball and can't divine the future and therefore it would be dishonest to make a promise you didn't know if you could keep.* Ask him if he really intends to force you to be dishonest.
*
Then you tell him that to force a signature on an instrument in law is a*felony fraud and if he wants you to inform the*judge of his felony acts and motion to suppress all the evidence because of his crimes upon you.* Now you have boxed him.* If he*forces your signature, he has perfect knowledge of his felony and has no excuse and also stands to cause suppression of all the evidence, making himself look like a fool before the judge.* Tell him at that point it would be wise for him to just void the ticket because to not do so will cause you intentional irreparable injury which is also a crime.* If you do this right, he will be the criminal and you a victim.
*
Remember in a traffic stop the trial is on the street, the appeal is the trial.* Never admit to anything, make them out to be the criminal, and do not volunteer to do anything, including answering questions.* You do the questioning, and they have no right to detain you any longer than is necessary to write a ticket.

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

*
If the cop loses sight of the suspect vehicle like around a corner or city, that is also grounds for dismissal as he can't then be sure it was the same vehicle.* If a cop ever threatens you because you won't sign, then you need to do the impossibility in law trick on him.* You ask*him if he will show up in court.* He will say yes.* Then you ask him how he knows he will be able to, does he have a crystal ball?* Ask him if how he knows he will even be alive tomorrow.* Tell him you have no such crystal ball and can't divine the future and therefore it would be dishonest to make a promise you didn't know if you could keep.* Ask him if he really intends to force you to be dishonest.
*
Then you tell him that to force a signature on an instrument in law is a*felony fraud and if he wants you to inform the*judge of his felony acts and motion to suppress all the evidence because of his crimes upon you.* Now you have boxed him.* If he*forces your signature, he has perfect knowledge of his felony and has no excuse and also stands to cause suppression of all the evidence, making himself look like a fool before the judge.* Tell him at that point it would be wise for him to just void the ticket because to not do so will cause you intentional irreparable injury which is also a crime.* If you do this right, he will be the criminal and you a victim.
*
Remember in a traffic stop the trial is on the street, the appeal is the trial.* Never admit to anything, make them out to be the criminal, and do not volunteer to do anything, including answering questions.* You do the questioning, and they have no right to detain you any longer than is necessary to write a ticket.

All I had to do was ask the cop "is it really necessary for me to sign this?".. his reponse was "either you sign it or I can take you to jail right now.".. So I signed it... my strawname and under that "Under Duress"... he almost lost his breath when he saw me write that on there... " I didn't threaten you"..."Yes, you did,, you said I could either sign it or go to jail.."........ CASE DISMISSED was the judges proclamation.

[Jerseee]

This is the heat!!!

Nice and simple. I laughed my arsh off after reading this! Good one Jerry and thanks for the laugh. This needs to be a success story!

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

All I had to do was ask the cop "is it really necessary for me to sign this?".. his reponse was "either you sign it or I can take you to jail right now.".. So I signed it... my strawname and under that "Under Duress"... he almost lost his breath when he saw me write that on there... " I didn't threaten you"..."Yes, you did,, you said I could either sign it or go to jail.."........ CASE DISMISSED was the judges proclamation.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

All I had to do was ask the cop "is it really necessary for me to sign this?".. his reponse was "either you sign it or I can take you to jail right now.".. So I signed it... my strawname and under that "Under Duress"... he almost lost his breath when he saw me write that on there... " I didn't threaten you"..."Yes, you did,, you said I could either sign it or go to jail.."........ CASE DISMISSED was the judges proclamation.

I did the same thing in my last traffic case(dismissed, bty) and when I told the judge at the arraignment that I was there only under duress because I signed it that way, he said,"you don't sign it, you go to jail, so it is duress. It's supposed to be.
That SOB did about everything but stick his middle finger up.

All I know is that I filed some extra docs between then & trial, it got bumped from a hearing officer to a bonafide judge postponing it a month, and they told the cop not to show up. Could it have just been the duress, who knows?

[mameye]

Hey All,

This has been a very educational thread. I am posting a consolidation of what I think the main points / questions to ask have been. Let me know what you think of the order, add any questions I may have missed, or reword something if you think it appropriate etc. I will be using these the next time I am stopped. (The last time I was stopped I just ticked the JBT - jack booted thug - off and his supervisor let me go when I startted yelling for help. Yes I actually yelled for help in a very crowded night club parking lot. There's nothing like 15 or 20 drunk country boys gathered round to make the JBTs nervous! It's a long but funny story,. I'll post it if anyone is interested.)

First things first - buy a small digital voice recorder and clip it to the visor of my car.

Questions to ask...
JBT - License and registration please?
Me - (In my friendliest voice...) Hi officer! Have I committed a crime? (arrestable offense)
JBT - No, you were speeding(or improper turn or whatever) license and reg please.
Me - (As I begin to look for documents) Am I under arrest? Do you have a warrant for my arrest?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Scene One:
JBT - Yes, license and reg please.
Me - Officer, please call the public defender, I can not answer any more questions without the assistance of council.
JBT - You don't need a lawyer, just give me the docs I want.
Me - Can those be used against me in the court?
JBT - Of course, you were speeding.
Me - I refuse to answer any more questions on the grounds that I might incriminate myself. I need assistance of council.
JBT - Probably swearing by now and calling in backup... I will probably go to jail at this point but what a law suit. The JBT and any backup that comes to help him will probably be out of a job once the dust settles...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Scene Two:
Me - (As I begin to look for documents) Am I under arrest? Do you have a warrant for my arrest?
JBT - No
Me - (At this point I have my docs in my hand so he can see them) Am I free to go then?
JBT - No, docs please...
Me - Hand over the docs and shut up. Let the JBT go back and do whatever. At this point he shouldn't be too angry because the questions were asked while trying to "comply" with the original request. I think that it's a bit like magic. He sees you getting the things he asked for even while he sets himself up. His brain may not make a connection between your actions and your questions...

JBT - (Back with ticket...) Here sign this.
Me - (While taking the ticket pad) Is it necessary to sign this? Am I admitting guilt by signing?
JBT - You must sign the ticket. It's only a promise to appear...
Me - Are you going to be in court?
JBT - Yes
Me - How can you be sure? Heck, I don't know if I'll even be alive tomorrow, mush less a month from now...
JBT - Just sign the ticket sir. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.
Me - (As I'm signing - slowly) Did you know it's felony fraud to force a signature on an instrument at law? (Don't finish signing yet, you are "noticing" him of the law)
JBT - No...
Me - (Looking like I'm re-reading the ticket) Do I really need to sign this?
JBT - It's that or I have to take you in.
Me - OK (Finish signing and put under duress by your name. Then hand the ticket book back to the JBT. Don't let on that you're doing anything out of the ordinary. Just wait for your copy.
JBT - What's this? Under Duress?
Me - Well, you said I had to sign the document. That's just how I preserve my rights as the ticket gets processed. (You don't let on that HE will be part of the ticket process other than appearing in court) Smile BIG and take your copy. Thank the JBT and tell him to "Have a nice day" it may be his last for a while...

The biggest thing I think is important is to be neutral and charming. Don't show your fangs to the JBT because then it becomes a pissing contest and he has a gun and buddies with guns. Just play normal and answer nicely. Don't let him know you are a shark that just boxed him up for "lunch".

Once the encounter is over, proceed with the legal process. This is where I still need to do research. From this point, what would be the step by step, in general terms, to gett the ticket dropped and nail the JBT? I asked for general terms because I know that the process may differ from state to state.

Thanks for the feedback
PS - I'm new here so if I've stepped on toes, let me know and I'll apologize or ammend my behavior. I hope to learn quite a bit from all of you. :smile:

[weishaupt1776]

Am I under arrest? No, then go away; I don't want to talk to you. I am? Then I have a right to counsel prior to interrogation; call your supervisor so we can get counsel out here.

[sadie]

video of a traffic stop

http://media2.big-boys.com/bbfiles/policetazer.wmv

[Jerseee]

OMG!

What was the outcome of this?