09-05-2007, 11:13 AM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 302
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bailey
They like to play games as to where or not it's criminal or civil, it really is just a joke. In most traffic cases there are no crime, however the cop pulls you over arrest you... if you do not sign the ticket you go to jail, it is a criminal case... they can call it whatever they want... it is criminal.
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Exactly, Bailey. I'm with ya. It even says in the CA Penal Code, Section 19.6:
19.6. An infraction is not punishable by imprisonment. A person
charged with an infraction shall not be entitled to a trial by jury.
A person charged with an infraction shall not be entitled to have
the public defender or other counsel appointed at public expense to
represent him or her unless he or she is arrested and not released on
his or her written promise to appear, his or her own recognizance,
or a deposit of bail.
But yet, if we don't sign the promise to appear, they arrest us, making it a criminal charge. So that's where the State loses subject matter jurisdiction. You are arraigned in a criminal court for a civil violation. End of story.
Since they are now charging you criminally, then all of the below are necessary:
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Originally Posted by Bailey
You have to have a prosecutor, you have to have a complaint, and you have to have a valid summons from a court.
The legislators have no power to make it so, but you can waive all the above by remaining silent on the issues.
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Seems pretty straight forward to me. I don't see the issue either.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bailey
You don't have arraignments in a civil case, it is a criminal case.
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__________________
Peace,
-Gabe
For educational purposes only, not to be construed as legal advice.
No liability assumed, no value assured, without recourse.
He who does not assert his rights, has none.
Oh, and in case you're wondering - the profile picture is really me.
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09-05-2007, 11:35 AM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona state
Posts: 434
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I'm also with ya Bailey.
Some ex-posters would split hairs as to the meaning of the codes, but the fact remains, that once an arrest occurs it becomes criminal. To suggest that the cop can immediately bring you before the magistrate does not make it less so.
People lose sight that they have the unlimited ability to contract as pointed out by David Merrill. Such contracts may contain criminal process and penalties. This is Admiralty jurisdiction. The registration is the contract.
Who in their right mind would agree to such a contract?
Sheeple comes to mind.
gldskr
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09-05-2007, 11:48 AM
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Waking Up
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 34
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gldskr
People lose sight that they have the unlimited ability to contract as pointed out by David Merrill. Such contracts may contain criminal process and penalties. This is Admiralty jurisdiction. The registration is the contract.
Who in their right mind would agree to such a contract?
Sheeple comes to mind.
gldskr
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What if, let's say you're a sovereign but you 'drive' for a living.
How can a 'non U.S. citizen' involved in 'commercial driving' acquire a DL without giving up their sovereignty?
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09-05-2007, 11:51 AM
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Banned User
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
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redy2fiyt... nice find.
I agree with you and gldskr.
To me you go the easiest route. If they don't even have a case open... you win. Of course, it is not a silver bullet but if you know how the system is suppose to work it sure will help ya.
What they are doing is fraud, we know that, they know that... just hold them to it.
Good job redy2fiyt. To me in most traffic cases there is nothing to worry about if you do it right, but there is no silver bullet. Just make them follow the law.
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09-05-2007, 12:03 PM
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Banned User
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
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That is not to say they could not give you a complaint and summons at a later date... usually they won't if it's minor. If you kill someone you can expect a complaint.
Are they going to go through all those hoops for speeding ticket? Not normally.
Without a complaint, summons and a prosecutor on the case... there is no case... there is no jurisdiction... court opens itself for liability if it you ask for dismissal. IMHO.
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09-05-2007, 12:13 PM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 302
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bailey
Are they going to go through all those hoops for speeding ticket? Not normally.
Without a complaint, summons and a prosecutor on the case... there is no case... there is no jurisdiction... court opens itself for liability if it you ask for dismissal. IMHO.
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County of San Bernardino did for me, surprisingly. Sent me a summons when I didn't appear - a bad one at that.
At my arraignment, I appeared via written notice with an MTQ the summons, MTD, and a notice of appeal, in case they decided to enter a plea for me (I know, I know. I shouldn't have even bothered with the appeal at this point, if its just an arraignment).
Well, they rejected my notice of appeal stating that "the defendant hadn't even been arraigned yet". No further actions or minutes on the website, no additional notices in the mail.
Apparently, they are letting this one slip through the cracks.
__________________
Peace,
-Gabe
For educational purposes only, not to be construed as legal advice.
No liability assumed, no value assured, without recourse.
He who does not assert his rights, has none.
Oh, and in case you're wondering - the profile picture is really me.
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09-05-2007, 12:19 PM
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Banned User
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
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Curious, how long has been since the arraignment?
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Originally Posted by redy2fiyt
County of San Bernardino did for me, surprisingly. Sent me a summons when I didn't appear - a bad one at that.
At my arraignment, I appeared via written notice with an MTQ the summons, MTD, and a notice of appeal, in case they decided to enter a plea for me (I know, I know. I shouldn't have even bothered with the appeal at this point, if its just an arraignment).
Well, they rejected my notice of appeal stating that "the defendant hadn't even been arraigned yet". No further actions or minutes on the website, no additional notices in the mail.
Apparently, they are letting this one slip through the cracks.
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09-05-2007, 12:31 PM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona state
Posts: 434
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Bailey
It's not fraud, it's a contractual relationship that begins with the registration. In Minnesota there is a statute that defines registration as "An application for taxation". You are registering your car into a motor vehicle database. It is all voluntary. If it wasn't, why do we need to apply?
Once you apply, the totality of the vehicle codes also apply. Why do we apply? Because someone told us to and out of ignorance we blindly follow. But you already know this.
TKL
We are all sovereign and have a right to make a living. The drivers license only applies to the vehicle driven according to the circumstances.
If you are driving someone else's registered vehicle you are required to have a DL. If you are driving your own unregistered vehicle no DL is required, however, obtaining clients and insurance might prove difficult unless you have the ability to self insure.
Sovereigns do not need a drivers license, fictions do.
gldskr
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09-05-2007, 12:37 PM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona state
Posts: 434
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regy2fiyt
If the vehicle you were driving was registered they have a case. If not you can prevail.
gldskr
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09-05-2007, 12:39 PM
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Banned User
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
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Sure it is fraud. They do basically the same process with someone that has no DL or registration. Or even if you are riding a bike.
Although, I actually agree on a few of your points but to me it's overkill. Easiest route is best for me, it works in most cases... make them follow the law they will be less inclined to follow through. IMHO.
The simple answer to this, do you want to be in court 5 minutes or 5 years. I'll take the 5 minute path, I am not saying I disagree with you... I just don't bring a tank to kill a roach, I just step on him.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gldskr
Bailey
It's not fraud, it's a contractual relationship that begins with the registration. In Minnesota there is a statute that defines registration as "An application for taxation". You are registering your car into a motor vehicle database. It is all voluntary. If it wasn't, why do we need to apply?
Once you apply, the totality of the vehicle codes also apply. Why do we apply? Because someone told us to and out of ignorance we blindly follow. But you already know this.
TKL
We are all sovereign and have a right to make a living. The drivers license only applies to the vehicle driven according to the circumstances.
If you are driving someone else's registered vehicle you are required to have a DL. If you are driving your own unregistered vehicle no DL is required, however, obtaining clients and insurance might prove difficult unless you have the ability to self insure.
Sovereigns do not need a drivers license, fictions do.
gldskr
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