What makes a Vehicle a Motor Vehicle

[DCLXVI]

What makes a vehicle a "motor vehicle"?

Thank you to anyone that can help me with this.

[gldskr]

Originally Posted by DCLXVI

What makes a vehicle a "motor vehicle"?

The testimony of the one applying for the privilege. The codes set forth the parameters, only you can make it so.

gldskr

[DCLXVI]

Originally Posted by gldskr

The testimony of the one applying for the privilege. The codes set forth the parameters, only you can make it so.

gldskr

What is the privilege?

What is the application (License or registration or both)?

Where in the application is the wording that I sign that states that I swear it is a motor vehicle?

Why is this your opinion?

[gldskr]

What is the privilege?

The privilege is to use your motor vehicle upon the streets and highways as opposed to exercising your fundamental right to travel. There are classes of vehicles that may rightly be regulated.

What is the application (License or registration or both)?

The license applies to the driver and the registration applies to the vehicle. If you drive in a registered motor vehicle you must have a license. If you drive in an unregistered vehicle the license is not necessary. Registration is the nexus not the license.

Where in the application is the wording that I sign that states that I swear it is a motor vehicle?

There is no swearing involved. It is an application not a mandate. It is assumed that you know what you are applying for. The fact that so many are ignorant is what they count on.

Why is this your opinion?

Based upon our founding documents, the rulings of the Supreme Court and the statutes themselves there is no other logical conclusion. Once the impossible has been ruled out, the truth remains.

gldskr

[DCLXVI]

Originally Posted by gldskr

The privilege is to use your motor vehicle upon the streets and highways as opposed to exercising your fundamental right to travel. There are classes of vehicles that may rightly be regulated.

I do not mean to be difficult. Are you saying that the privilege is "Use" "Use on the highway" or "Use of motor vehicle" or "Use of motor vehicle on the highway" that is the privilege? Isn't travel just a part of Liberty?

The license applies to the driver and the registration applies to the vehicle. If you drive in a registered motor vehicle you must have a license. If you drive in an unregistered vehicle the license is not necessary. Registration is the nexus not the license.

So I must be licensed to drive a motor vehicle. If the privilege is to drive a motor vehicle then you are saying that the term "motor vehicle" is what is regulated or the term "drive" that is regulated? Which between the two is the nexus for hte state to regulate? And that I must be licensed to use it and it must be licensed/registered to be used?

Also you state that the act of registering the car gives testimony as to it being a motor vehicle. If that is that case then would not every court case against those in new vehicles never registered be easily won by attacking the complaint failing to allege that one was driving a motor vehicle?

There is no swearing involved. It is an application not a mandate. It is assumed that you know what you are applying for. The fact that so many are ignorant is what they count on.


First testimony always involves swearing or verifying.

Second if it is a mere assumption that I knew what I was applying for then I can rebut it with "testimony" that I did not know and that the context in which you seem to suggest it is so, is not found in any statute or rule or regulation so it was not reasonable at all in the slightest for me to know that I was applying for something with characteristics beyond what was ascribed to it by statute which is the expression of the legilature and therefore the law. I would feel comfortable with that if that were the way it worked. But I doubt it would work.

I still do not know what I am applying for. I am applying for a license to drive a motor vehicle. I do not know what a motor vehicle is however other than the your statement that my car became one by my own testimony. What if I were in someone else’s car and they never showed me their registration? Suppose I hopped in their car and was driving around and got pulled over. Would not my argument in court that I had no way of knowing if the car was under a contract and had no reasonable way of ascertaining the knowledge first hand be an absolute defense?

Based upon our founding documents, the rulings of the Supreme Court and the statutes themselves there is no other logical conclusion. Once the impossible has been ruled out, the truth remains.

What is that conclusion?

What are "the founding documents"?

gldskr

Thank you.

: )

[DCLXVI]

GldSkr,

You state that when I apply for registration I am applying to classify my car as a motor vehicle. Yes? No?

You also state that it is presumed/assumed that I am to know that this classification is part of the application and that the application process itself is responsible for the classification. Yes? No?

I ask you for the wording in the application that makes you think so and you do not give me any wording from an application. Yes? No?

I ask you now for either:

1) The wording in a state application for registration that creates a presumption/assumption in law that my vehicle is now to be classified as a "motor vehicle".

or

2) The wording in a statute, code, rule, or regulation, that suggests that a presumption/assumption is created by my application for registration of a motor vehicle.


Further I would like to know your strategy on tackling the obvious problem with the laws/codes/statutes that require registration of "motor vehicles". If the registration application is what makes a "vehicle" a "motor vehicle" then how does one ever apply rightfully for registration. The legislature is not presumed to create laws with no effect. By stating that registration is needed before application for registration is made, is to create a paradox/impossibility in law and as such that construction must be avoided at nearly all costs.

[DCLXVI]

This might be of interest to you Dillon.

"Certificate of title" is defined in the West's Ann.Cal.Comm. Code (2003):

Section 9102. Definitions and index of definitions
(a) In this division:
. . .
(10) "Certificate of title" means a certificate of title with respect to which a statute provides for the security interest in question to be indicated on the certificate as a condition or result of the security interest's obtaining priority over the rights of a lien creditor with respect to the collateral.
West's Ann.Cal.Com. Code 2003, section 9102(a)(10).

This the commercial code granted.

9303. Law governing perfection and priority of security interests in goods covered by a certificate of title

(a) This section applies to goods covered by a certificate of title, even if there is no other relationship between the jurisdiction under whose certificate of title the goods are covered and the goods or the debtor.
(b) Goods become covered by a certificate of title when a valid application for the certificate of title and the applicable fee are delivered to the appropriate authority. Goods cease to be covered by a certificate of title at the earlier of the time the certificate of title ceases to be effective under the law of the issuing jurisdiction or the time the goods become covered subsequently by a certificate of title issued by another jurisdiction.
(c) The local law of the jurisdiction under whose certificate of title the goods are covered governs perfection, the effect of perfection or nonperfection, and the priority of a security interest in goods covered by a certificate of title from the time the goods become covered by the certificate of title until the goods cease to be covered by the certificate of title.
West's Ann.Cal.Comm. Code 2003, section 9303.

I think the above rght there is what gldskr is talking about. However the there is more specific legislation for automobilse. But thi sshould help describe to you the sates "taking" of everything under its control by way of certification.

[gldskr]

DCLXVI

The thought behind your questions leads me to believe you are someone else, but I digress.

Originally Posted by DCLXVI

You state that when I apply for registration I am applying to classify my car as a motor vehicle. Yes? No? Yes, among other things, a listing for taxation.

You also state that it is presumed/assumed that I am to know that this classification is part of the application and that the application process itself is responsible for the classification. Yes? No?No, the application is an application, it makes no presumptions as to the terms of the offer, it leaves that for you to determine. If you're dumb enough to sign up, they just take your money.

I ask you for the wording in the application that makes you think so and you do not give me any wording from an application. Yes? No? Yes, there is no wording in the application. It is not up to the DMV to determine whether your vehicle is a motor vehicle or not, that is up to you to decide. When you are ready they will gladly take your money.

I ask you now for either:

1) The wording in a state application for registration that creates a presumption/assumption in law that my vehicle is now to be classified as a "motor vehicle".
There is no such wording and there need not be, as it is the actions of the applicant that caused the re-classification, to be listed in their taxing database of motor vehicles.

or

2) The wording in a statute, code, rule, or regulation, that suggests that a presumption/assumption is created by my application for registration of a motor vehicle.
Again, you will find no such wording. As mentioned in my previous post, the parameters of a motor vehicle are spelled out in the statutes and it is the applicants responsibility to determine whether his vehicle falls within the classification. Use is a determining factor, but the statutes are clear. Motor vehicles must be registered, but they are also clear in that registration must be applied for, a voluntary act. If one applies to have his vehicle registered as a motor vehicle the intent seems pretty clear. The Statutes don't necessarily have to presume anything, the sheeple can do that themselves.

Further I would like to know your strategy on tackling the obvious problem with the laws/codes/statutes that require registration of "motor vehicles". If the registration application is what makes a "vehicle" a "motor vehicle" then how does one ever apply rightfully for registration. The legislature is not presumed to create laws with no effect. By stating that registration is needed before application for registration is made, is to create a paradox/impossibility in law and as such that construction must be avoided at nearly all costs.I don't have a clue what your talkin about here, you're gonna have to splain this again.

gldskr

[truthmatrix]

Maybe this will help.

The UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) comes into play when you submit an application (offer to contract) to the DMV(office) which will accept your offer and give you the plates and registration papers; by accepting their instruments you become subject to their rules, regulations, fees, codes.

Your car is now a Motor Vehicle under their codes. Because it is now classified by the State as a Motor Vehicle. The state now has interest in it. The automobile turned Motor Vehicle is now required to be operated by a license driver, to have insurance and be subject to fines, tickets and even confiscation.

Why? Because the corporate state now has a security interest in your motor vehicle.
Your motor vehicle and the person who applied for registration has placed themselves under the jurisdiction of a corporate entity.

California Vehicle Code
Perfection of Security Interest
6301. When the secured party, his or her successor, or his or her assignee, has deposited, either physically or by electronic transmission pursuant to Section 1801.1, with the department a properly endorsed certificate of ownership showing the secured party as legal owner or an application in usual form for an original registration, together with an application for registration of the secured party as legal owner, the deposit constitutes perfection of the security interest and the rights of all persons in the vehicle shall be subject to the provisions of the Uniform Commercial Code, but the vehicle subject to the security interest shall be subject to a lien for services and materials as provided in Chapter 6.5 (commencing with Section 3068) of Title 14 of Part 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code.

TM
Ignorance leads to Fear; Truth Empowers and Frees the Soul.

[DCLXVI]

Originally Posted by truthmatrix

Maybe this will help.

The UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) comes into play when you submit an application (offer to contract) to the DMV(office) which will accept your offer and give you the plates and registration papers; by accepting their instruments you become subject to their rules, regulations, fees, codes.

Your car is now a Motor Vehicle under their codes. Because it is now classified by the State as a Motor Vehicle. The state now has interest in it. The automobile turned Motor Vehicle is now required to be operated by a license driver, to have insurance and be subject to fines, tickets and even confiscation.

Why? Because the corporate state now has a security interest in your motor vehicle.
Your motor vehicle and the person who applied for registration has placed themselves under the jurisdiction of a corporate entity.

California Vehicle Code
Perfection of Security Interest
6301. When the secured party, his or her successor, or his or her assignee, has deposited, either physically or by electronic transmission pursuant to Section 1801.1, with the department a properly endorsed certificate of ownership showing the secured party as legal owner or an application in usual form for an original registration, together with an application for registration of the secured party as legal owner, the deposit constitutes perfection of the security interest and the rights of all persons in the vehicle shall be subject to the provisions of the Uniform Commercial Code, but the vehicle subject to the security interest shall be subject to a lien for services and materials as provided in Chapter 6.5 (commencing with Section 3068) of Title 14 of Part 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code.

TM
Ignorance leads to Fear; Truth Empowers and Frees the Soul.

Were in there does it say that a presumption/assumption that my car is being turned into a "motor vehicle"?

I do not see it.

I do see where my car has been entered into interstate commerce. But no, I do not see the cretion of a presumption/assumption that my vehicle has become a "motor vehicle".