Traffic Court Losses

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by kmcarr

I havent posted because I havent had anything positive to post. Yea I Punked out. An orderly retreat from the field was ordered. I filed the Mandamus on the following Monday and then waited until about a week before the trial to go hire a bar card holder. I was getting harassed, I think, but I could just be paranoia. I have lived in the City for 3 years with no crime problems whatsoever and then 1 week after I went before the Judge my wife’s car got broken into and someone attempted to steal it. The only thing that leads me to suspect municipal involvement is that was the car I was driving at the time so that’s the plate number they had. So after 2 weeks in the shop getting the steering column repaired we get it back and not 8 hours later some kid in a beat up old minivan side swipes the car while it is out on the street. I ran outside and caught the kids who were driving and held them until the cops got there. Of course no one in the car had an ID or insurance. The cop took down their information and then let them go. After all that the conspiracy nut in me came out, and the constant “advice” of my other half, and so I caved and paid the goons their cash. Dealing with “my” attorney was fun though. He kept telling me how I had to be there for the trial and the Judge really was going to expect me to be there. I told him that’s what I’m paying him for, Now Go and REPRESENT me. I’m not giving up though. I still have the TS docs and now I know a hell of a lot more on how to use them and handle myself in front of the black robed lawyer. Next time I will be ready to file everything on time and in order so I will have a lot more confidence in my strategy. Marc Stevens book was a good read but wasn’t very helpful-to me. He basically says try and avoid the bureaucratic **9%#$ if you can, but if you cant these are some of my experiences. I still encourage everyone to read it. So until my next engagement I’ll be reading and learning along with everyone else here. Thanks for the interest Mr. Nuetron.

No reason to put yourself down. It takes time to learn what is needed. If I went to traffic court in your situation I would have done the same thing. Just keep studying and researching. The more knowledge you acquire the more confidence you will have.

[Livefire]

"How can two walk together except they be agreed?" Kinda hard to attempt an approach that only one of the parties has an understanding of. Also ya gotta pick and choose your battles. One doesnt majorly wipe out their pocketbook or their sanity over a traffic ticket. Good learning experience tho!

Thanks km for your response.I guess inquiring and limited minds like mine like to have finality.Perhaps i have seen to many Kung Fu reruns.I think of what livefire wrote about picking battles i have a stop sign violation with 560 plus in funny money waiting on appeal for a stop sign ticket.But my job can depend on the outcome.I think we are allowed no tickets.I later found that i could have told the court i had cosigners for lack of abetter word and i would not have had to pay the booty,i don't know if the one arm bandit(judge) had any room to deny it.

[quote=weishaupt1776][color=black][b] I was thinking of using this as a thread to post our defeats &/or denial of motions. Here is what happened:
snip


QUOTE=weishaupt1776][color=black][b] I was thinking of using this as a thread to post our defeats &/or denial of motions. Here is what happened:

snip

I filed the AoT on Oct 11 w/ an MoD. I mentioned that the affidavit was not rebutted w/ in the 10 day period & the judge blew it off. The Motion hearing was today 10/25 and all there was was the judge & me w/ no prosecution.

RULE 6.540. TIME FOR AND METHOD OF MAKING MOTIONS; PROCEDURE

(a) Time. A motion for new hearing or in arrest of judgment, or both, may be made within 10 days, or such greater time as the official may allow, not to exceed 30 days, after the finding of the official.

(b) Method. When the defendant has been found to have committed the infraction, the motion may be dictated into the record, if a court reporter is present, and may be argued immediately after the finding of the official. The official may immediately rule on the motion.

(c) Procedure. The motion may be in writing, filed with the clerk or violations bureau and shall state the grounds on which it is based. When the official sets a time for the hearing, the clerk or bureau shall notify the counsel, if any, for the defendant or, if no attorney has been retained, the defendant.

He said my motions were based on civil procedure & not applicable to a civil infraction.

>>in fl traffic is criminal [if im readin this right i been up all night again]

RULE 6.160. PRACTICE AS IN CRIMINAL RULES
Except as provided, the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure shall govern this part. A defendant shall be considered “taken into custody” for the purpose of rule 3.191 when the defendant is arrested, or when a traffic citation, notice to appear, summons, information, or indictment is served on the defendant in lieu of arrest.

I asked if this was admin or jud & he said jud. I asked if the word person in the cited statute included flesh & blood people & he said yes. I then said I was here under duress & he said that's right you have no other choice but to sign it otherwise you'll be arrested, so it is under duress. I moved for discovery & he said that is not applicable to civ infr & it will have to go to trial & to set it w/the clerk. He then denied the motions.

>>see cite supra

RULE 6.165. COMPLAINT; SUMMONS; FORM; USE

(a) Uniform Traffic Citation. All prosecutions for criminal traffic offenses by law enforcement officers shall be by uniform traffic citation as provided for in section 316.650, Florida Statutes, or other applicable statutes, or by affidavit, information, or indictment as provided for in the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure.

If prosecution is by affidavit, information, or indictment, a uniform traffic citation shall be prepared by the arresting officer at the direction of the prosecutor or, in the absence of the arresting officer, by the prosecutor and submitted to the department.

so, weis it would seem that you also should have a PA...where he at??? should the cace fail for lack of pros?

I walked down there, and the clerk punched it up & said your plea is not guilty & the trial is set for Jan 19. I was stunned. I said I did not plea & was not informed by the judge that he entered a plea. After much deliberation, I went back to the courtroom & said that there was not enough information from which to enter a plea. He just steamrolled it. I asked if he was offering to be my attorney, empty bench, etc. . . I showed him case law regarding affidavits & how the plaintiff had to show jurisdiction by affidavit and he said that's only in civil cases.

I was stuck-I didn't object like should have or ask for JD of his oath, etc. . .

>>RULE 6.380. NONVERIFICATION OF PLEADINGS

Except when otherwise specifically provided by these rules or an applicable statute, every written pleading or other paper of a defendant represented by an attorney need not be verified or accompanied by an affidavit.

RULE 6.445. DISCOVERY: INFRACTIONS ONLY

If any relevant supporting documentation regarding the electronic or mechanical speed measuring device used by the citing officer is in said officer's possession at the time of trial, the defendant or defendant's attorney shall be entitled to review said documentation immediately before that trial

I asked who the prosecution would be, and he said the Sheriff would be.

>>RULE 6.380. NONVERIFICATION OF PLEADINGS

Except when otherwise specifically provided by these rules or an applicable statute, every written pleading or other paper of a defendant represented by an attorney need not be verified or accompanied by an affidavit.

RULE 6.400. CLERK TO PREPARE AND SEND REPORTS

When reports or forms are to be sent to the department, the clerk or traffic violations bureau shall prepare and send the reports or forms.

RULE 6.445. DISCOVERY: INFRACTIONS ONLY

If any relevant supporting documentation regarding the electronic or mechanical speed measuring device used by the citing officer is in said officer's possession at the time of trial, the defendant or defendant's attorney shall be entitled to review said documentation immediately before that trial


I went back & they said I either sign the thing now or get hit w/late fees, So I signed the thing under duress with A.R.R like I did w/ the ticket.



Now I am thoroughly confused. The ticket is a civil infraction, but the civ proc is not recognized. A plea has been entered against my will.

>>weis i think you did hella good work and you gave it your best. well done, but as we can c here a judge will lie like a rug. in the instant matter weis lost cos he didnt know where and what the rules of court were. these are some of the rules of court for traffic in fl. depending on how long its been weis and if you have the time...i would get another ticket as opposed to tryin to appeal this one as you know the only thing heard on appeal is wots on the record and im sorry to say it man but u aint got **** on the record. start fresh...if i can be of any help at all please let me know.

raz

[weishaupt1776]

Str8 nice to see you back again.

That was an arraignment, it wound up getting dismissed, but you were right in that i didn't have the rules down

Thanks again

[Jugito]

What County were you in?

[Jugito]

Never Mind. I see you are in Pinellas County.

Come to the Lawmen meeting 3rd Thursday of every month, Perkins on Dale Mabry 3 blocks south of I275 in Tampa.

Next meeting this week, 20 July 2006